The Brexit Thread

[Gingerbeardman]

Maybe because it’s the actual statement that was made and replied to.

I’m seriously beginning to get the feeling you’re just trolling now, if it continue I’ll have to re-evaluate having a discussion with you so if I start ignoring you, you’ll understand why.

Ok, let's break it down:

so disingenuous, thanks for clarifying

what the rules say on paper in a hypothetical sense is worlds apart from the reality, as demonstrated by Cameron, as demonstrated by May, as demonstrated by Poland who got reprimanded for the way they deal with their domestic press, as demonstrated by Hungary who got reprimanded for erecting physical borders to stop the influx of migrants

So instead of it being demonstrated by virtue of a reprimand for erecting physical borders to stop the influx of migrants, it was demonstrated by virtue of reprimands for immigration policies in general not specifically referring to a border wall. So in other words, while the example did not prove the initial point, there are actually plenty of examples that do.

And you now don't want to admit the examples that do, pretending that they are a separate issue, because you want to obsess over the example that doesn't. Well guess what, one example that does work overrides a million that don't.

I’m seriously beginning to get the feeling you’re just trolling now, if it continue I’ll have to re-evaluate having a discussion with you so if I start ignoring you, you’ll understand why.

Lol, now I'm the troll for calling you out for engaging in bad faith, that's rich.

 

[noxibox]

EU migrants cannot in fact be freely restricted

And yet they can have restrictions in place. They're also free to place significant restrictions on migration from new member states to old member states. Thus the UK had the option to, for example, make it difficult for Poles to come to the UK to work, but they never used it.

That's called a reported fact, as per the BBC story, and as per the story from DW which NBFTW quoted which said exactly the same thing, which you then ignored in its entirety, because you got a hard-on for stories about border walls.

No, the conspiracy against Hungary is an opinion, based on paranoia about the EU. If the EU is so powerful they have no reason to pretend that punitive measures are about something other than the walls if they are indeed about the walls. But of course they're not.

 

[noxibox]

Bye then. I'll take the bad old days over the new doublethink days.

You and your fellow Hungarians are free to leave the EU any time you like. In fact why isn't Hungary leaving?

I'm glad you think Hungary was great back in the Iron Curtain days.

 

[Gingerbeardman]

And yet they can have restrictions in place. They're also free to place significant restrictions on migration from new member states to old member states. Thus the UK had the option to, for example, make it difficult for Poles to come to the UK to work, but they never used it.

Yeah, that's why the EU is up in arms because Hungary has the temerity to make it a crime to coach economic migrants to pass themselves off as refugees. I guess I must just be imagining the attempt to sanction Hungary over their behaviour with respect to their immigration policies. Oh wait, that's right, it's not immigration policies, it's the fact that they're an authoritarian police state, as if those don't actually amount to one and the same thing.

No, the conspiracy against Hungary is an opinion, based on paranoia about the EU. If the EU is so powerful they have no reason to pretend that punitive measures are about something other than the walls if they are indeed about the walls. But of course they're not.

I didn't make any claim specific to walls in the passage you quoted. You appear to be trying to put words in my mouth to argue a straw man.

 

[dw...]

Ok, let's break it down:


So instead of it being demonstrated by virtue of a reprimand for erecting physical borders to stop the influx of migrants, it was demonstrated by virtue of reprimands for immigration policies in general not specifically referring to a border wall. So in other words, while the example did not prove the initial point, there are actually plenty of examples that do.

And you now don't want to admit the examples that do, pretending that they are a separate issue, because you want to obsess over the example that doesn't. Well guess what, one example that does work overrides a million that don't.


Lol, now I'm the troll for calling you out for engaging in bad faith, that's rich.

What bad faith? I’m not interested in any other reprimands, warnings or unicorns relating to the EU, I’ve made the point numerous times I’m only discussing the fake news statement that Hungary was reprimanded or sanctioned by the EU for its border wall/fence.

Nothing else is relevant to the fake news of the border fence causing Hungary to the reprimanded or sanctioned by the EU, and I’m not discussing any other “what about” or “what if” or opinions on how evil the EU is.

Anything else you try and introduce is bad faith on your part, and is trolling, yes.

 

[Gingerbeardman]

What bad faith? I’m not interested in any other reprimands, warnings or unicorns relating to the EU, I’ve made the point numerous times I’m only discussing the fake news statement that Hungary was reprimanded or sanctioned by the EU for its border wall/fence.

Right, so all your other responses to NBFTW that formed part of the same conversation, and what you actually meant and what you were arguing don't actually exist nor have any bearing on the conversation as a whole, but you're not engaging in bad faith.

Nothing else is relevant to the fake news of the border fence causing Hungary to the reprimanded or sanctioned by the EU, and I’m not discussing any other “what about” or “what if” or opinions on how evil the EU is.

So all those other posts you were making were wrong and can be ignored because you were not actually making any points?

Anything else you try and introduce is bad faith on your part, and is trolling, yes.

Yeah, how dare I hold your other posts against you to debunk your pathetic claim that you were only disputing the passing of punitive measures on Hungary for it's construction of border walls.

 

[Gingerbeardman]

You and your fellow Hungarians are free to leave the EU any time you like. In fact why isn't Hungary leaving?

Probably aren't pissed off enough yet. That will change in due time, I imagine.

I'm glad you think Hungary was great back in the Iron Curtain days.

I'm glad you think Hungary is in danger of falling back into the grips of communism because they don't want to bend over to be rogered by the EU.

 

[dw...]

Right, so all your other responses to NBFTW that formed part of the same conversation, and what you actually meant and what you were arguing don't actually exist nor have any bearing on the conversation as a whole, but you're not engaging in bad faith.


So all those other posts you were making were wrong and can be ignored because you were not actually making any points?


Yeah, how dare I hold your other posts against you to debunk your pathetic claim that you were only disputing the passing of punitive measures on Hungary for it's construction of border walls.

Blah Blah, as I said, I’m willing to debate the point I was discussing but I’m not really interested in further discussion about anything else, unlike some I try and only debate what I’ve researched or have knowledge/interest in.

You can carry on white-knighting for Narrowband with someone else now.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

You can carry on white-knighting for Narrowband with someone else now.

just one question ... who's troll account are you?

joined 2016 post count 280 ... been on ice for a short-ish while ...

 

[Hamish McPanji]

just one question ... who's troll account are you?

joined 2016 post count 280 ... been on ice for a short-ish while ...

My guess is Angela Merkel's. Deutsche Welle is a German public media agrncy

 

[dw...]

just one question ... who's troll account are you?

joined 2016 post count 280 ... been on ice for a short-ish while ...

Why would you presume me to be a troll? I’ve backed up my position with proof and haven’t tried to troll anyone. I’m not the one who’s lost their cool and made insulting comments a number of times, Narrowband.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Maybe because it’s the actual statement that was made and replied to.

I’m seriously beginning to get the feeling you’re just trolling now, if it continue I’ll have to re-evaluate having a discussion with you so if I start ignoring you, you’ll understand why.

It's extremely telling that they've never actually been able to substantiate their central claim, and have had to churn so many posts out that also do not, in fact, substantiate the claim, but have to twist other things to pretend they have.

 

[Gingerbeardman]

It's extremely telling that they've never actually been able to substantiate their central claim, and have had to churn so many posts out that also do not, in fact, substantiate the claim, but have to twist other things to pretend they have.

Yeah no sure, we have no reason to believe that the EU is aggressive in enforcing its preferred migrant policies on member nations despite nominally claiming to respect the autonomy of member nations in that regard. It hasn't in fact been substantiated that the EU, like everywhere else, behaves according to the edicts of realpolitik. That the facts that form the purported substantiation has never been meaningfully challenged or responded to is absolutely no defect on the part of those criticising the substance of the point as they dive their ostrich heads in to the sand.

Nice circle-jerk you remoaners got going, really.

 

[dw...]

Nice circle-jerk you remoaners got going, really.

Hang on mate, point of order.

I don’t give a s..t if England remains, leaves or decides to join the AU, I couldn’t give a flying f... about the EU and it’s internal policies in general (something I’ve said for a while), countries want to be in the EU? good for them, if they don’t, then good for them to.

 

[Gingerbeardman]

Why would you presume me to be a troll?

Because halfway through a conversation you suddenly pretend as if your replies are now a completely different conversation, as if your responses are unconnected to what transpired previously. Your inability to recognise where evidence contradicts your claims and respond to them meaningfully is the sort of engagement one recognises a troll by.

I’ve backed up my position with proof and haven’t tried to troll anyone.

You won't even own up to your position, even after being called on it.

 

[dw...]

Because halfway through a conversation you suddenly pretend as if your replies are now a completely different conversation, as if your responses are unconnected to what transpired previously. Your inability to recognise where evidence contradicts your claims and respond to them meaningfully is the sort of engagement one recognises a troll by.


You won't even own up to your position, even after being called on it.

My position was simple, Ginger, a statement of fake news was made (twice actually) and I commented on the specific fake news statement. I don’t know enough, nor do I care enough to worry about the internal politics of Hungary.

If I see fake news, whether it’s pro-eu or anti-eu or pro-USA or anti-USA or pro/anti anything else I will comment against it.

 

[Gingerbeardman]

My position was simple, Ginger, a statement of fake news was made (twice actually) and I commented on the specific fake news statement. I don’t know enough, nor do I care enough to worry about the internal politics of Hungary.

Ok, presuming that your correction is 100% accurate, is it really the case that you have nothing to say about the rest of the post which you did not to respond to in favour of making your correction?

If I see fake news, whether it’s pro-eu or anti-eu or pro-USA or anti-USA or pro/anti anything else I will comment against it.

Do you feel the same way about rectifying your own assertions that are in error?

 

[dw...]

Ok, presuming that your correction is 100% accurate, is it really the case that you have nothing to say about the rest of the post which you did not to respond to in favour of making your correction?


Do you feel the same way about rectifying your own assertions that are in error?

The only two assertions that I have made are (1) there are some restrictions to eu citizen migration allowed to eu member countries and (2) the eu did not sanction or reprimand Hungary for building the fence/wall on its southern borders.

Which of those is an error?

 

[Gingerbeardman]

The only two assertions that I have made are (1) there are some restrictions to eu citizen migration allowed to eu member countries and (2) the eu did not sanction or reprimand Hungary for building the fence/wall on its southern borders.

Which of those is an error?

The assertion that those are the only two assertions you've made is in error. You have made other assertions as well, which you refuse to consider.

Do you acknowledge that the EU tried to sanction Hungry over some of its immigration policies, or nah?

 

[dw...]

The assertion that those are the only two assertions you've made is in error. You have made other assertions as well, which you refuse to consider.

Do you acknowledge that the EU tried to sanction Hungry over some of its immigration policies, or nah?

I’ve never said they did or didn’t.