The Brexit Thread

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I'm not against Brexit, I am against crashing into it headlong and blind to the realities of the consequences. That is realities and consequences that no-one foresaw and no one explained. Leaving the EU was campaigned on getting the best deal possible before leaving, but now the unelected PM and a few of his ministers have decided that no deal is the only option if he wants to deliver on his promise (which is more important to him than actually leaving) and so he has bypassed the process in which the best deal can be agreed on.

Yes parliament has had a long time to pfaff over it, but these issues were not clear at the time and now that the implications are clearER, the only sensible thing to do is have a second referendum with real questions on it.

But yeah, let the chaos ensue. Adolf Johnson has spoken.
1) The PM is elected in exactly the same way as every other PM. He was selected by MPs of a ruling coalition.
2) The UK and most other countries in the world do perfectly fine by not being part of the EU. They can sideswipe a lot of the problems by simply by getting rid of all tariffs for example.
3) So long as the UK protects individual rights and promotes free trade, economically they will be fine. You don't need central planning for this in making sure that *consequences* are looked after by an incompetent government .
 
And what would you call 2 years of talks with no meaningful results?

The EU has made it very clear that they are not interested in a good deal for the UK, thus a no-deal is the best terms they will get.

How do you figure a no-deal is better than a deal, even if the deal isn't entirely in the UKs favour?
 
How do you figure a no-deal is better than a deal, even if the deal isn't entirely in the UKs favour?
No deal will involve less tariffs for the UK. Simple as that.
Under WTO rules, after Brexit, cars would be taxed at 10% when they crossed the UK-EU border. And agricultural tariffs would be significantly higher, rising to an average of more than 35% for dairy products.

Its temporary schedule would mean that 87% of imports by value will be tariff-free, compared with 80% before Brexit.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45112872

The EU can see where their mercantilism gets them, just as Trump will see.
 
No deal will involve less tariffs for the UK. Simple as that.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45112872

The EU can see where their mercantilism gets them, just as Trump will see.

A one way street though, no?

I lifted this from a Facebook page on the strategy. Makes for interesting reading. And note that the 39bn 'divorce bill' figure has already been agreed by the UK.

Boris Johnson has been bragging that in the event of the No Deal meltdown that he wants, Britain won't have to pay the £39 billion "divorce bill" to the EU.

The £39 billion cost is to cover Britain's debts and liabilities to the EU, for example the cost of paying pensions to British MEPs and workers to have worked in EU institutions like the European Parliament, or the European Medicines Agency.

The EU have made it absolutely clear that Britain will simply stay in limbo until the "divorce bill", the rights of EU citizens, and the Irish border issue are dealt with - so unless the UK wants to exist as an isolationist economy, the bill will have to be paid sooner or later.

However if Britain does attempt to walk away without covering these costs, it sends a very clear signal to the rest of the world that the UK is a rogue state that abandons its trade partners on a whim, and then refuses to cover their debts and liabilities.

Who is going to sign up to a trade deal with the UK when they've been given an absolutely crystal clear demonstration that the UK government will simply renege on the agreement at some point in the future if it suits their interests to do so?

But things begin to look even worse when you put this in the context of what the Tories actually want to do in the event of No Deal.

One of their 'genius plans' is to unilaterally reduce tariffs on almost all imports to 0% (because under WTO rules you can't offer favourable tariffs to one country without offering it to all countries, unless it's through a specific trade agreement).

So the UK will reduce import taxes to 0%, while all other countries will leave their tariffs on UK exports in place (because it would be unlawful for them to reciprocate, unless they do it through a specific trade deal).

This strategy is Unilateral Economic Disarmament, and it will undoubtedly cause absolute havoc with British manufacturing, agriculture, and export industries.

Imagine trying to survive when the UK market is suddenly flooded with cheap Chinese imports with 0% tariffs, while the products you're trying to sell overseas are still subject to import tariffs.

But aside from the direct impact of such a ludicrous economic suicide strategy, it's also a massive impediment to signing up to new trade deals because it burns most of our negotiating capital.

Why would other economies offer to reduce their tariffs on imports from the UK, when UK tariffs on their exports are already set to zero?

They'd obviously end up asking for something else in return, and one of the first things that comes to mind is favourable immigration rights for their citizens (which would be more than a bit of a bummer for the bigoted xenophobe demographic who voted Brexit to 'make the nasty furriners go home' wouldn't it?).

And they're certain to ask an even higher price still if the UK government goes rogue and attempts to shaft the EU27 by refusing to cover their debts and liabilities, because nobody in their right mind ever offers the most favourable terms to the most unreliable and incompetent people in the room.

£39 billion is a huge amount of money, and it's absolutely criminal that the public weren't warned that quitting the EU would come with such a high price tag when we were asked to make a decision on continued membership. But the cost of quitting without paying what's owed will obviously be even higher.

Pissing off all of your neighbouring economies by brazenly ripping them off is an absolutely terrible move, and demonstrating that you're an unreliable trade partner on the international stage is even worse, especially given that our crackpot Tory government are intent on deliberately burning away our negotiating capital by committing Unilateral Economic Disarmament at the same time.
 
A one way street though, no?

How is not taxing your citizens a one way street?

Why would other economies offer to reduce their tariffs on imports from the UK, when UK tariffs on their exports are already set to zero?
Because they are taxing their citizens. If they want to tax their citizens to death, they will only sign their own economic failures.

But aside from the direct impact of such a ludicrous economic suicide strategy, it's also a massive impediment to signing up to new trade deals because it burns most of our negotiating capital.
Wut?

That isn't how trade deals work. You don't need negotiation capital, what is more, that 39bn is a drop in the ocean compared to how much money they waste on "free" healthcare
550px-UK-Government-Expenditure-2016-17.jpg
 
How is not taxing your citizens a one way street?

I know it was a big passage I posted and you probably skipped through it, but here is the crux of the matter...

One of their 'genius plans' is to unilaterally reduce tariffs on almost all imports to 0% (because under WTO rules you can't offer favourable tariffs to one country without offering it to all countries, unless it's through a specific trade agreement).

So the UK will reduce import taxes to 0%, while all other countries will leave their tariffs on UK exports in place (because it would be unlawful for them to reciprocate, unless they do it through a specific trade deal).

This strategy is Unilateral Economic Disarmament, and it will undoubtedly cause absolute havoc with British manufacturing, agriculture, and export industries.

The 0% tariff is on imports. So imports are zero rated, but anyone exporting has to put the relevant tax on to wherever it is going. That's the one way street.

Edit: your BBC link said the same thing.
 
I know it was a big passage I posted and you probably skipped through it, but here is the crux of the matter...


The 0% tariff is on imports. So imports are zero rated, but anyone exporting has to put the relevant tax on to wherever it is going. That's the one way street.
I read though it, and you are still wrong.

If the other country keeps their tariffs in place, they are simply taxing their own citizens, which doesn't lead to any economic good as the Trumpenfuherer (and soon the EU ) is finding out. If the EU taxes UK goods such that no-one in the EU would want to buy them, how is that benefitting the EU consumer?
 
I read though it, and you are still wrong.

If the other country keeps their tariffs in place, they are simply taxing their own citizens, which doesn't lead to any economic good as the Trumpenfuherer (and soon the EU ) is finding out. If the EU taxes UK goods such that no-one in the EU would want to buy them, how is that benefitting the EU consumer?

It’s not my point. If there is 0% duty on imported goods to the UK, it will obviously lead to cheaper imports and put strain on UK produce, manufacturing and industry.

Similarly, exports to the EU will now be taxed whereas previously they were all 0 rated. So higher prices in Europe for UK goods than local produce means increased competition, and lower prices for all imported goods from outside Europe than it is at present. Also a harder sell.

One way street.
 
It’s not my point. If there is 0% duty on imported goods to the UK, it will obviously lead to cheaper imports and put strain on UK produce, manufacturing and industry.

Similarly, exports to the EU will now be taxed whereas previously they were all 0 rated. So higher prices in Europe for UK goods than local produce means increased competition, and lower prices for all imported goods from outside Europe than it is at present. Also a harder sell.

One way street.
Right, so people in the EU will end up paying higher prices for their goods because now UK goods are taxed, thus there isn't an incentive for them to lower their prices.
Own goal.

You are working on the failed assumption that government setting the price of goods and services results in economic prosperity. I am not.

Maybe the UK can give their manufacturing industry a boost by cutting their taxes instead.
 
The Financial Times, read largely by rich bankers, lawyers etc. is now recommending a Corbyn government apparently to "safeguard British democracy". :ROFL:

706139

And more prominent Remainers (of course he is part of the 'literary' scene. A very famous book author) are losing it:


Interesting bit of info about the BoJo/Cummings electoral strategy as well...so basically outside the London and other big city bubbles, the patriotic public are tired of these poseurs.

 
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Right, so people in the EU will end up paying higher prices for their goods because now UK goods are taxed, thus there isn't an incentive for them to lower their prices.
Own goal.

You are working on the failed assumption that government setting the price of goods and services results in economic prosperity. I am not.

Maybe the UK can give their manufacturing industry a boost by cutting their taxes instead.

I'm talking about the added strain to UK producers and manufacturers and the potential knock on effect of a down turn in sales. That could affect UK industry and jobs adversely, although I guess the Chinese will be happy.
 
The Financial Times, read largely by rich bankers, lawyers etc. is now recommending a Corbyn government apparently to "safeguard British democracy". :ROFL:

View attachment 706139

You know establishment swamp rates are beyond desperate when they turn to a commie to save them. Also just goes to show what they actually think of democracy....
 
The Financial Times, read largely by rich bankers, lawyers etc. is now recommending a Corbyn government apparently to "safeguard British democracy". :ROFL:

View attachment 706139

And more prominent Remainers (of course he is part of the 'literary' scene. A very famous book author) are losing it:


Interesting bit of info about the BoJo/Cummings electoral strategy as well...


Never mind our dear own president, I wonder how you feel if Jeremy Corbyn had pulled the exact same move as Johnson has done?

First, getting the job of PM through the back door. Second, suspending parliament to force through his version of Brexit.

You would be absolutely livid. And rightly so.
 
The Financial Times, read largely by rich bankers, lawyers etc. is now recommending a Corbyn government apparently to "safeguard British democracy". :ROFL:

Can you imagine the meltdown if Corbyn comes in? Since you love meltdowns im sure you will like this one too right? I mean just look at Alan, hes already tossing and turning at the thought of a dirty commie.
 
Never mind our dear own president, I wonder how you feel if Jeremy Corbyn had pulled the exact same move as Johnson has done?

First, getting the job of PM through the back door. Second, suspending parliament to force through his version of Brexit.

You would be absolutely livid. And rightly so.
Standard response to that should include :

1. Brexit won, get over it (but let's rub it in for the millionth time)
2. You're a remoaner
3. Britain will be stronger
4. Insert ROFLs
 
I'm talking about the added strain to UK producers and manufacturers and the potential knock on effect of a down turn in sales. That could affect UK industry and jobs adversely, although I guess the Chinese will be happy.
Central planning does not work.

As for jobs, UK wages are rising faster than ever because European migrants are leaving.

 
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