The Brexit Thread

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C4Cat said:
Still it makes a modern precedent - royalty has stayed out of politics in modern times, with only formalities being followed but once it becomes clear that the Queen (or King) can override parliament it open up all sorts of slippery slopes in the future, especially if William decides one day he doesn't want to remain neutral and uninvolved anymore, like his mother, and has strong political feelings he is willing to subvert parliament to push forward.
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Royalty doing what the prime minister advises because it is correct for her highness to do so according to the protocols established is exactly staying out of politics.
 
noxibox said:
Parliament isn't intended to be a direct representation of the people. But's let's assume it were. The people have chosen a new parliament since the referendum therefore we can argue that the current parliament represents the current will of the people. That means the people either don't really want to leave the EU or at the very least they don't want to leave without a deal.
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You're forgetting the referendum result.
 
C4Cat said:
The people don't want Brexit. That it why brexiteers are so terrified of a second referendum, now that all the lies have been exposed.
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The "will of the people", as long as it's the will of the people as expressed 3 years ago and doesn't entertain the slightest hint that the will of the people may have changed since then....
 
Cray said:
The "will of the people", as long as it's the will of the people as expressed 3 years ago and doesn't entertain the slightest hint that the will of the people may have changed since then....
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Well lets look at a recent election shall we, to see how the will of the people has shifted:

800px-Map_of_2019_European_Parliament_election_in_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_European_Parliament_election_in_the_United_Kingdom


The largest party in the elections this year was the party mandating a no-deal Brexit. And that was with a 39% turnout. The 2016 referendum had a 72% turnout, which makes it democratically more legitimate than just about any other election the UK has had in years.
 
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Gingerbeardman said:
Why would any new parliament feel free to forget the result?
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Because constitutionally no Parliament can bind a future Parliament to follow a decision of that Parliament.

Parliamentary sovereignty is a principle of the UK constitution. It makes Parliament the supreme legal authority in the UK, which can create or end any law.

Generally, the courts cannot overrule its legislation and no Parliament can pass laws that future Parliaments cannot change.

Parliamentary sovereignty is the most important part of the UK constitution.
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www.parliament.uk

Parliament

Parliamentary sovereignty is a principle of the UK constitution
www.parliament.uk www.parliament.uk
 
Dave said:
Because constitutionally no Parliament can bind a future Parliament to follow a decision of that Parliament.

www.parliament.uk

Parliament

Parliamentary sovereignty is a principle of the UK constitution
www.parliament.uk www.parliament.uk
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It's not a law, it's a referendum. Decision != law.
 
rietrot said:
Not nessecery what he wants. What the people voted for in the referendum. I thought that was the job of the MPs to represent the people that voted for them. And it is pretty accurate to call the MPs doing whatever they want a power grab.
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In the UK MPs are representatives, not delegates. They are bound to represent ALL of their constituents, not just what a portion want, they are also bound to act in the interests of the country.

Members of the House of Commons hold, in effect, a triple mandate. They represent all the people of their constituency, their party and the interests of the country. It is a tenet of representative democracy that MPs are not delegates for their constituents. This means that, while the views of constituents are frequently considered, the actions of MPs are governed by their determination of the best interests of their constituency, their party and the country as a whole.
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www.politics.co.uk

MPs and Political parties

Guide to the MPs and Political Parties in the House of Commons - who they represent and what they do
www.politics.co.uk www.politics.co.uk
 
Gingerbeardman said:
It's not a law, it's a referendum. Decision != law.
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Xarog splitting hairs! That’s (not) a new one.

A Parliament cannot bind another future Parliament to carry out decisions either.

Any decisions made by the Cameron Parliament ended with the 2017 election. A future Parliament can choose to continue with a path of action but constitutionally they are also free to ignore.
 
Dave said:
Xarog splitting hairs! That’s (not) a new one.

A Parliament cannot bind another future Parliament to carry out decisions either.
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Since it was already mentioned that the referendum wasn't binding, your point is irrelevant. It doesn't change the fact that the will of the people was expressed through the referendum, and if the MPs don't vote along those lines, they are in fact not respecting the will of the people, regardless of whatever technicalities you might wish to conjure up regarding why they are entitled to do so.
 
Gingerbeardman said:
Since it was already mentioned that the referendum wasn't binding, your point is irrelevant. It doesn't change the fact that the will of the people was expressed through the referendum, and if the MPs don't vote along those lines, they are in fact not respecting the will of the people, regardless of whatever technicalities you might wish to conjure up regarding why they are entitled to do so.
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The constitutional rights of Parliament aren’t a technicality, Xarog.
 
C4Cat said:
The people don't want Brexit. That it why brexiteers are so terrified of a second referendum, now that all the lies have been exposed.
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You are delusional. There was no need for a second referendum. Brexiteers were never scared, just thought it stupid and wrong for remainers to want to keep voting until they win.
But your side can accomplish the same thing now with an election, which is actually needed to get new MPs. If the people want to remain they will vote for remain MPs, but parliament don't want an election, they are scared.
 
Dave said:
The constitutional rights of Parliament aren’t a technicality, Xarog.
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Yes it is in the context of this conversation. The will of the people was to vote for Brexit. If it doesn't happen, the will of the people was not respected, and the idea that parliament represents the will of the people will be proved to be a fiction.
 
Dave said:
In the UK MPs are representatives, not delegates. They are bound to represent ALL of their constituents, not just what a portion want, they are also bound to act in the interests of the country.



www.politics.co.uk

MPs and Political parties

Guide to the MPs and Political Parties in the House of Commons - who they represent and what they do
www.politics.co.uk www.politics.co.uk
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Ridiculous double speak without making any point.
 
Gingerbeardman said:
Yes it is in the context of this conversation. The will of the people was to vote for Brexit. If it doesn't happen, the will of the people was not respected, and the idea that parliament represents the will of the people will be proved to be a fiction.
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It was a non-binding referendum, that was a mistake by Cameron, if it was supposed to be a ”will of the people” no discussion or amendment decision fixed in law then it should have been legislated as such.

There are plenty of people locally who have changed their mind, mostly Leavers who now want to remain but there are also some remainers who now just want to leave, it’s been 3 years and it’s not unreasonable to put it back to the people. This time is should be legislated as a binding referendum with a binary choice between no deal exit or remain. The legislation should then also fix a Brexit date for leaving in the event it is a leave vote.

Simple, legislate it to ask “do you want to remain or leave with no deal on xx/xx/2020”.
 
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