The Brexit Thread

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The Voice said:
And that's probably why Leave, and across the pond, Trump, won. The elitist attitude of the middle and upper classes. **** the uneducated working class, amirite?
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Selling unicorns to the uneducated tabloid consumer is not difficult. And now they're going to get ****ed twice as hard thanks to Brexit.
 
Verde said:
Agreed, in that scenario a 2nd referendum is likely. Unfortunately polls show support for a deal over remain in such a referendum.

The best strategy for those of us who want to see the UK remaining in the EU, is to respect the 1st referendum and agree to an orderly deal to leave. After that is accomplished I expect public opinion to swing strongly toward close ties with the EU and eventually rejoining.
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Exactly, if everyone honoured the result and worked together to get the best deal through instead of half pushing and half blocking, things would be so much better for everyone concerned.
 
JayM said:
Selling unicorns to the uneducated tabloid consumer is not difficult. And now they're going to get ****ed twice as hard thanks to Brexit.
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How do you feel about democracy?
 
buka001 said:
Piers Morgan and several Brexiters. Daily Mail and various facets are supporting this.

So why?
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Guess the reality of a No-Deal Brexit seems very real, something the Remoaners thought would never happen in a million years. Now that it's do or die, some will rather doe than die I suppose. I personally feel a No-Deal is the best deal, but that is me. Which in general means the majority of the people still want to leave, deal or no deal.
 
JayM said:
It takes more than faith to get results though. "Remoaners" are more educated and contribute far more to the economy.
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Have tangible proof to back this up?

I would like to believe the opposite. But I'll gladly change my opinion if you can back this up.
 
Spizz said:
Leaving the EU will break up the union. The only question now is how much and what level of violence there will be in Scotland and NI.
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Agreed, but I think there are orderly democratic mechanisms in place for achieving a peaceful breakup.
I support Irish reunification and a NI referendum endorsing it is the only sensible way for it to happen.
I hope the Scots can hang in there a bit, as long as they stay in the union the UK will have to keep close ties with the EU.
 
Verde said:
Agreed, in that scenario a 2nd referendum is likely
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There is and will never be a second referendum. When will you guys realise this?

1. It defeats the purpose of having referendums in the first place
2. What would you do if the Remainers lose even further? Have a 3rd?
 
rietrot said:
How do you feel about democracy?
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I think it shouldn't be subverted by pulling a bait-'n-switch on the general public. Farage & co were selling full single market membership in the run-up to the vote, and then changed their tune as soon as they'd won. That's not democracy. My feeling is a Norway+ EFTA/EEA type deal is what was offered, and should be delivered now.
 
Pitbull said:
There is and will never be a second referendum. When will you guys realise this?

1. It defeats the purpose of having referendums in the first place
2. What would you do if the Remainers lose even further? Have a 3rd?
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Then why did they have a second referendum in the first place?
 
Pitbull said:
Guess the reality of a No-Deal Brexit seems very real, something the Remoaners thought would never happen in a million years. Now that it's do or die, some will rather doe than die I suppose. I personally feel a No-Deal is the best deal, but that is me. Which in general means the majority of the people still want to leave, deal or no deal.
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The remainers are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

If they reject BJs deal, UK could very likely crash out as Juncker has expressed no extension will be granted. Of course, its not his decision, but he might have some weight behind him. If they accept the deal, its a crappy deal and UK still leaves. Of course, the passed that motion yesterday that they can change parts of the deal tomorrow, maybe they will use the time to try better the deal instead of fighting it. Again though, EU could just give UK the middle finger.

Going to be an interesting two weeks.
 
AdrianH said:
The remainers are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

If they reject BJs deal, UK could very likely crash out as Juncker has expressed no extension will be granted. Of course, its not his decision, but he might have some weight behind him. If they accept the deal, its a crappy deal and UK still leaves.

Going to be an interesting two weeks.
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I fully agree. BJ is in the driving seat not just for getting the UK out of the EU, but also paving the way for election. Win or Lose, he wins :D
 
Pitbull said:
There is and will never be a second referendum. When will you guys realise this?

1. It defeats the purpose of having referendums in the first place
2. What would you do if the Remainers lose even further? Have a 3rd?
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A hung parliament may well result in a 2nd referendum. If that happens remain will be decimated.
The voting public is fed-up with brexit. Parliament's attempts to thwart Johnson has shifted public opinion in his favour. The public will vote for his deal over remain.

The only acceptable way to get to a 2nd referendum is for a party campaigning on a 2nd referendum manifesto to win an outright majority in an early election. That is not going to happen.

I support Johnson's deal to end the brexit agony.
 
Verde said:
A hung parliament may well result in a 2nd referendum. If that happens remain will be decimated.
The voting public is fed-up with brexit. Parliament's attempts to thwart Johnson has shifted public opinion in his favour. The public will vote for his deal over remain.

The only acceptable way to get to a 2nd referendum is for a party campaigning on a 2nd referendum manifesto to win an outright majority in an early election. That is not going to happen.

I support Johnson's deal to end the brexit agony.
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Is there a way Brexit could be stopped even if deal is not accepted and EU refuses and extension? It all seems to point without an extension, UK leaves with or without a deal end of October and nothing can stop it.
 
Verde said:
Agreed, but I think there are orderly democratic mechanisms in place for achieving a peaceful breakup.
I support Irish reunification and a NI referendum endorsing it is the only sensible way for it to happen.
I hope the Scots can hang in there a bit, as long as they stay in the union the UK will have to keep close ties with the EU.
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I feel like the NI unionists are being hung out to dry here, but obviously to the Tories, they are the easiest to trample over.

I understand their wants and needs to remain in the UK, but I really fear now that rocking the Apple cart will lead to violence from the loyalists. The GFA worked perfectly in appeasing the extremists and allowing both sides personal choices that placated their needs.

But now the IRA have made threats this week, and the mainstream media have deliberately ignored as an inconvenience the fact that the DUP consulted with outlawed loyalist paramilitaries before making their call not to support the deal.

In my opinion, a peaceful united Ireland is a long way away,and no matter how small the minority, differences run too deep for some not to cause trouble if it does come about.
 
Pitbull said:
que?

You mean the one they had now after 45 years? You call that a second referendum?

I think you need to re-think your stance :o
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You didn't put a time frame to it... So it's a second referendum on roughly the same topic...
 
JayM said:
I think it shouldn't be subverted by pulling a bait-'n-switch on the general public. Farage & co were selling full single market membership in the run-up to the vote, and then changed their tune as soon as they'd won. That's not democracy. My feeling is a Norway+ EFTA/EEA type deal is what was offered, and should be delivered now.
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I don't think anyone would go for that. It basically has all of the drawbacks of being part of the EU, with none of the benefits.
 
JayM said:
I think it shouldn't be subverted by pulling a bait-'n-switch on the general public. Farage & co were selling full single market membership in the run-up to the vote, and then changed their tune as soon as they'd won. That's not democracy. My feeling is a Norway+ EFTA/EEA type deal is what was offered, and should be delivered now.
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So basically you are a hypocrite that only like democracy only when your team wins.
 
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