• You are losing out on amazing benefits because you are not a member. Join for free. Register now.
  • Big Two-Day Giveaway - Win an Amazon Kindle, a Mystery Gadget and Branded Gear. Enter Here.
  • Test your broadband speed and win prizes worth R5,000. Enter here.

The F-35 thread

Blu82

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
1,301
Could you rephrase that? I'm struggling to get what you're actually saying there.
The countermeasures for a directed energy weapons already exists at ground level due to the prevalence of laser guided anti tank missiles.

[video=youtube_share;CjlJi4l0cBs]https://youtu.be/CjlJi4l0cBs[/video]
 
Last edited:

Dave

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
40,220
The countermeasures for a directed energy weapon already exists at ground level due to the prevalence of laser guided anti tank missiles.

[video=youtube_share;CjlJi4l0cBs]https://youtu.be/CjlJi4l0cBs[/video]
You think that there's no future for directed energy weapons? Or that they won't be improving immeasurably over the next few decades?

LOL
 

Blu82

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
1,301
Exactly, because trying to prove the quality of the apple juice you get from an orange is always going to be a nonsense. This whole comparison wasn't required and the Air Force didn't want it either. It was the pro-A10 mafia who were hoping to get it to show how good the A10 was at a specific task when being compared to the newest all rounder fighter bomber the air force now has.
The problem with the F-35 in a close air support mission is that it will be doing medium altitude bombing and not close air support. A B1-B with a LATIRN pod can do that better or if you want to minimize friendly fire casualties a F-15E.

Friendly fire statistics
 
Last edited:

Blu82

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
1,301
You think that there's no future for directed energy weapons? Or that they won't be improving immeasurably over the next few decades?

LOL
There is a future for directed energy weapons but in the near term it will be ground to air, air to air or aircraft self protection.

Also in terms of directed energy weapon improvement for air to ground. It is easier and cheaper to develop a new smoke grenade than an airborne laser platform therefor any advancement in weapon can be countered quickly.
 
Last edited:

Dave

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
40,220
The problem with the F-35 in a close air support mission is that it will be doing medium altitude bombing and not close air support. A B1-B with a LATIRN pod can do that better or if you want to minimize friendly fire casualties a F-15E.
How is an F15 going to minimise casualties compared to an F35?
 

Blu82

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
1,301
How is an F15 going to minimise casualties compared to an F35?
Two crew members versus the one of an F-35 which reduces the work load. It also carries the same LATIRN pod the F-16, B1-B, F-18 and A-10 carries which provides better video for targetting.
 

The_Assimilator

Executive Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
5,923
Thanks to JDAM, the only CAS advantage the A-10 has remaining is its ability to loiter for a long time. Hell, even the latest AC-130J Ghostriders are becoming bomb trucks, and because they are able to cover the loiter requirement while standard fighters and bombers are able to fulfil the rapid-strike requirement, there doesn't seem to be much place for the A-10 anymore. If you absolutely need long-loiter CAS with a 30mm cannon, there's the Apache.

I've been a proponent of the A-10 for a long time but even I am coming to accept that its days are numbered. It's a specialist warbird in a world where warbirds are expected to be capable of performing multiple roles.
 

Dave

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
40,220
Two crew members versus the one of an F-35 which reduces the work load. It also carries the same LATIRN pod the F-16, B1-B, F-18 and A-10 carries which provides better video for targetting.
So who compared the pod to the built in sensors of the F35? Those same sensors that have been said to be far more advanced than anything on any comparable plane...
 

Dave

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
40,220
Thanks to JDAM, the only CAS advantage the A-10 has remaining is its ability to loiter for a long time. Hell, even the latest AC-130J Ghostriders are becoming bomb trucks, and because they are able to cover the loiter requirement while standard fighters and bombers are able to fulfil the rapid-strike requirement, there doesn't seem to be much place for the A-10 anymore. If you absolutely need long-loiter CAS with a 30mm cannon, there's the Apache.

I've been a proponent of the A-10 for a long time but even I am coming to accept that its days are numbered. It's a specialist warbird in a world where warbirds are expected to be capable of performing multiple roles.
Well said, the A10 has had its day, at least in contested airspace, and with air superiority you may as well use Apache or C130 and save money.
 

Blu82

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
1,301
So who compared the pod to the built in sensors of the F35? Those same sensors that have been said to be far more advanced than anything on any comparable plane...
When they were designed maybe but the modern LATIRN pods have since surpassed them and it easier to upgrade the pod underneath a weapon station than the one integrated into the aircraft.

There is a proposed upgrade path for the F-35 DAS and EOTS systems if the USAF, USN or USMC op to install it.
 

Dave

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
40,220
When they were designed maybe but the modern LATIRN pods have since surpassed them and it easier to upgrade the pod underneath a weapon station than the one integrated into the aircraft.
I presume you are actually referring to LANTIRN? Advanced EOTS is due with Block 4 on the F35 and is superior to LANTIRN.
 

Blu82

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
1,301
I presume you are actually referring to LANTIRN? Advanced EOTS is due with Block 4 on the F35 and is superior to LANTIRN.
Those upgrades get retrofitted to the LATIRN system and suddenly all the aircraft have that capability. The F-35's stealth capability is also its greatest weakness due to need to keep all system internally. Upgrading any system on that aircraft is therefor expensive and the aircraft will therefor see less incremental updates like for instance replacing your LATIRN pod with a more modern one.

The F-22 still lacks a EOTs system for instance.
 

Dave

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
40,220
Those upgrades get retrofitted to the LATIRN system and suddenly all the aircraft have that capability. The F-35's stealth capability is also its greatest weakness due to need to keep all system internally. Upgrading any system on that aircraft is therefor expensive and the aircraft will therefor see less incremental updates like for instance replacing your LATIRN pod with a more modern one.

The F-22 still lacks a EOTs system for instance.
You keep saying LATIRN as if it's something, again, are you referring to LANTIRN?

It's also funny that the armchair critics think the F35 sensors are outdated whilst every F35 pilot interview (including pilots who've moved over from F15, F16 and F/A18) all comment on how much better the sensor system on the F35 is...
 

buka001

Expert Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
2,177
One question? Has the civilian Hercules flown yet. It has loop planned.


Source
Yes. Did a loop at FIA on Tuesday.

With regards to the F-35 I have gone into a wait and see mode.

Some aspects have been disappointing, in respect to the delays, reduced specifications and so on.

Ultimately something good will come of it, but to see how good, time will tell.

Hopefully the real test may never happen.
 

Blu82

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
1,301
You keep saying LATIRN as if it's something, again, are you referring to LANTIRN?

It's also funny that the armchair critics think the F35 sensors are outdated whilst every F35 pilot interview (including pilots who've moved over from F15, F16 and F/A18) all comment on how much better the sensor system on the F35 is...
Having done a fair bit of DRI calculations I am actually more curious on the design of the DAS. The optical system on that must be impressive in order to provide useful information instead of a pretty picture of the outside world with additional information overlaid over it from other sensors.

That sensor fusion which the F-35 provides nothing currently can compete with. There are however better sensors available than the current ones on the F-35 and it is more difficult to upgrade its sensors due to the stealth nature of the aircraft.

My main problem with the F-35 aircraft its concept was a single air frame that replaces the A-10, F-16, F-18 and AV-8 and the compromises made shoots it in the knee.
 

Dave

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
40,220
My main problem with the F-35 aircraft its concept was a single air frame that replaces the A-10, F-16, F-18 and AV-8 and the compromises made shoots it in the knee.
Except of course that simplifies it far more than reality. The A, B and C have ended up being pretty unique models that just happen to look similar.
 

Blu82

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
1,301
Some legacy design decisions and compromises would have carried over to the detriment of the aircraft. If they had three different airframes from the start the aircraft would have been fastly superior.

There are currently serious concerns about the lifetime of the F35B airframe due to the weight saving exercises done.
 
Top