The Middle East Conflict Thread

daveza said:
But that's not what Lev 19 says. Isn't this just interpreting scripture to suit an agenda ?
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No, Leviticus 24 states if you are attacked attack back. Leviticus 19 states if a man wishes to live peacefully in Israel allow him to do so.

How does Lev. 19 overrule Lev. 24?

EDIT: not that I feel this is particularly religiously motivated, but if you are discussing religion realise that the Torah gives Israel the right to attack back.
 
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daveza said:
But Garyvdh, it is a religious issue surely ? This is a religious conflict and not something I am turning into something it isn't.

Is that quote from the Quran ?
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It is partly a religious issue. Obviously it is a religious issue to the Muslim extremists and the Zionists.. but it is also more than that.

From a secular perspective it is just one sovereign nation protecting itself against terrorist attacks and using proportionately larger and measured force to remove that threat.

I think we should avoid discussing the religious issue here... rather make a new thread in the PD section for that.
 
Garyvdh said:
From this site...

http://www.bvml.org/webmaster/koranquotes.html

That quote is from the Hadith (the oral traditions - they carry the same weight as the Qu'ran - they "interpret" the Qu'ran)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith
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Talk about misquoted!!!! I wouldnt believe those quotes if I were you...
Thats crazy man!!

I was just interested because that particlular Hadith is known by alot of Jewish people for some reason, that particular tree is also banned in Israel....
 
JK8 said:

Talk about misquoted!!!! I wouldnt believe those quotes if I were you...
Thats crazy man!!

I was just interested because that particlular Hadith is known by alot of Jewish people for some reason, that particular tree is also banned in Israel....
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How misquoted? You are welcome to prove otherwise. Please provide an alternative translation of that section of the Hadith.

You need to remember that to Muslims the Hadith is as authoritative as the Talmud is to the Orthodox Jews.
 
daveza said:
I'm not a fan of translations or interpretations as they are always interpreted to suit some or other agenda.

The same wiki source says the following -

It was clear that Muhammed forbade his sahaba to write down words of his other than those comprising the Quran. However after his death, many corrupted sahaba fabricated his words and life style and wrote those down as a book. Eventually those were given the name 'Hadith'[8]. Most muslims follow those hadith as a parallel book of the Quran; despite the fact that in the Quran, God prohibits following religious laws other than those in the Quran. These hadith contradict with Quran regarding religious views and rules.

It appears thus that the
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Ja, this is a well known fact. But once again religious tradition outweighs the intentions of the original religious works. It is a fact that most Muslims conveniently ignore. Some people say that when Muhammed's followers each wrote down his version of the Qu'ran they ended up with 13 different versions. They then voted on the "most likely" version and destroyed the others. Excellent way to start a religion! :)
 
Garyvdh said:
That quote is from the Hadith (the oral traditions - they carry the same weight as the Qu'ran - they "interpret" the Qu'ran)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith
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I'm not a fan of translations or interpretations as they are always interpreted to suit some or other agenda.

The same wiki source says the following -

It was clear that Muhammed forbade his sahaba to write down words of his other than those comprising the Quran. However after his death, many corrupted sahaba fabricated his words and life style and wrote those down as a book. Eventually those were given the name 'Hadith'[8]. Most muslims follow those hadith as a parallel book of the Quran; despite the fact that in the Quran, God prohibits following religious laws other than those in the Quran. These hadith contradict with Quran regarding religious views and rules.

It appears thus that the Quaran and Hadith are at odds with each other.

The same goes for Lev 19 - the addition of ' those aliens living at peace ' is simply an interpretation or what someone feels is somehow implied - because it is difficult to understand how Lev 24 is compatible without the added phrase.

That said I'm not familiar enough with either the Torah or the Quran to debate their meaning.
What I can say is that religions are supposed to teach love, peace and harmony while in reality they practice hate, war and seperation - and I'm referring to the jewish, muslim and christian religions.

This is more suited to the PD section so I will leave the scriptural references at that.
 
daveza said:
What I can say is that religions are supposed to teach love, peace and harmony while in reality they practice hate, war and seperation - and I'm referring to the jewish, muslim and christian religions.
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I can't argue with that
 
as on 702 show from person A and B, now excluding the callers

Jewish Speaker: i quote form the bible, then it comes down to loosing a life is a tragedy
Palestinian Speaker: i quote from the koran, then it also comes down to peace and love

....the irony :rolleyes:, seems there's not going to be podcast on the show.
 
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Mod Note:

Thread title changed to "The Middle East Conflict Thread" and similar threads will be merged into this one.
 
BTTB said:
Mod Note:

Thread title changed to "The Middle East Conflict Thread" and similar threads will be merged into this one.
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I thought Gaza was appropriate and relevant to whats currently happening...
 
Indonesia - Angry Indonesian Muslim students stormed a Kentucky Fried Chicken restaurant on Thursday in protest against Israel's military strikes on the Gaza Strip.

About 300 protesters gathered outside the US fast food outlet in Palu, Central Sulawesi, waving Palestinian flags, burning US and Israeli emblems and carrying banners condemning Israel as a "terrorist and criminal" state.

A handful of demonstrators then stormed the restaurant, overturning tables and chairs.

"KFC's licence is from America, an important Israeli ally. In consuming US products it means that we give financial contributions to Israel's military strikes on the Palestinian people," protest co-ordinator Maful Haruna said.

The restaurant, which was closed following the protest, was set to reopen on Friday, management said.

Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim nation, is a strong supporter of the Palestinian cause and does not recognise Israel.

The Israeli offensive against Palestinian Islamist group Hamas in the Gaza Strip, which began on December 27, has so far killed 702 Palestinians and wounded 3 100, Gaza medics say.
 
JK8 said:
I thought Gaza was appropriate and relevant to whats currently happening...
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Chat about it. I can change the title later back to the old one.:)
The thing is Israel is now facing a war on two fronts with Lebanon firing rockets into the north of Israel. This conflict could get worse?
 
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JK8 said:
Indonesia - Angry Indonesian Muslim students stormed a Kentucky Fried Chicken restaurant on Thursday in protest against Israel's military strikes on the Gaza Strip.

About 300 protesters gathered outside the US fast food outlet in Palu, Central Sulawesi, waving Palestinian flags, burning US and Israeli emblems and carrying banners condemning Israel as a "terrorist and criminal" state.

A handful of demonstrators then stormed the restaurant, overturning tables and chairs.

"KFC's licence is from America, an important Israeli ally. In consuming US products it means that we give financial contributions to Israel's military strikes on the Palestinian people," protest co-ordinator Maful Haruna said.

The restaurant, which was closed following the protest, was set to reopen on Friday, management said.

Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim nation, is a strong supporter of the Palestinian cause and does not recognise Israel.

The Israeli offensive against Palestinian Islamist group Hamas in the Gaza Strip, which began on December 27, has so far killed 702 Palestinians and wounded 3 100, Gaza medics say.
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LOL... poor Chickens! :D
 
BTTB said:
Chat about it. I can change the title later back to the old one.:)
The thing is Israel is not facing a war on two fronts with Lebanon firing rockets into the north of Israel.
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He's a bit slow. You have to be patient with him! :)

Israel has now been attacked by "unknown groups" in Lebanon, they now face a war on two fronts. This is a bit bigger than Gaza... Gaza is in the South, Lebanon is in the North.

CNN has also changed their reporting on the conflict from "Crisis in Gaza" to "Conflict in the Middle East".

Get with the times JK8! :p
 
BTTB said:
Chat about it. I can change the title later back to the old one.:)
The thing is Israel is not facing a war on two fronts with Lebanon firing rockets into the north of Israel.
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http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wo...non_And_Israel_Strikes_Area_Near_Egypt_Border

Sky's Middle East correspondent Dominic Waghorn, on the Israel-Gaza border, said: "If it is Hizbollah, it is a major development. It means Israel will have to fight a war on two fronts."

But he cautioned against assuming Hizbollah was responsible, adding that rogue Palestinian militants also operate out of southern Lebanon.
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http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3652692,00.html

Military sources estimated that the attack was carried out by a Palestinian organization and not by Hizbullah, in light of the type of rockets used.
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Perhaps it is too soon to increase the scope of the conflict to include Lebanon ?
 
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BTTB said:
Chat about it. I can change the title later back to the old one.:)
The thing is Israel is now facing a war on two fronts with Lebanon firing rockets into the north of Israel. This conflict could get worse?
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So far it looks like rogue rockets fired by a disgruntled group and not hezbollah so there is no evidence that things may escalate in the north yet.

Edit:
Daveza beat me to it.
 
daveza said:
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wo...non_And_Israel_Strikes_Area_Near_Egypt_Border

Perhaps it is too soon to increase the scope of the conflict to include Lebanon ?
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I think it is appropriate. If Major news outlets are already changing their reporting. This was bigger than Gaza for a while now already, with other Arab nations chiming in, problems along the Egyptian border with Gaza, and plenty of envoys heading to Israel to try and talk peace. I don't think it is going to clam down any time soon, it is going to escalate. I also think that Israel is itching for an excuse to go and bomb those "nuclear power plants" in Iran.
 
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