The Middle East Conflict Thread

Xarog said:
Bull.

Hamas was not created in a vacuum. You seem to think that Israel magically occupied the palestinian territories after Hamas was founded. The truth is actually the opposite. The occupation created Hamas, and it is the occupation that needs to end in order for progress to be made. No reasonable government could ever concede to having foreign powers controlling its borders, as this is a FUNDAMENTAL requirement of sovereignty. Anything less is nothing more than being a puppet of a foreign power, i.e. being a colony/being occupied for eternity. Until the Palestinians receive a just and equitable offer for a VIABLE nationstate, all talks and all attempts to wipe out resistance movements are moot. With every Palestinian you kill, another 2 join the resistance. That is how it is and that is how it will be UNTIL such a time as reasonable and rational palestinians have A REAL opportunity to create a state of their own, and give real expression to their desires of self-determination.

As long as Israel stands in the way of it, like it has for the last 40 years, there will be violent resistance, by whatever means possible.
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as was the awb, as was the anc....
 
BBSA said:
Frankie, you will have to spell it out, otherwise they won't get it.
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Let me spell it out to you :

By claiming that it's ok to bomb Palestinian business centres in the West Bank simply because Hamas happens to be in charge of Gaza, you're effectively claiming that civilian business centres are reasonable military targets.

In other words, you have just voiced support for terrorism.
 
Xarog said:
Eh?
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...i'm talking about the oppression leading up too where anc came to be, their terror acts and where we are now. Both them and awb didn't just appear out of no where they were made be circumstances.
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/09/gaza-palestinians-israel-evacuees-zeitoun

At least 30 people were killed in the Zeitoun district of Gaza after Israeli troops repeatedly shelled a house to which more than 100 Palestinians had been evacuated by the Israeli military, the UN said today.

The UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA), said in a report it was "one of the gravest incidents since the beginning of operations" against Hamas militants in Gaza by the Israeli military on 27 December.

OCHA said the incident took place on 4 January, a day after Israel began its ground offensive in Gaza. According to testimonies gathered by the UN, Israeli soldiers evacuated about 110 Palestinians to a single-storey house in Zeitoun, south-east Gaza. The evacuees were instructed to stay indoors for their safety but 24 hours later the Israeli army shelled the house. About half the Palestinians sheltering in the house were children, OCHA said. The report also complains that the Israeli Defence Force prevented medical teams from entering the area to evacuate the wounded.

The OCHA report does not accuse Israel of a deliberate act but calls for an investigation. Responding to the report, an Israeli military spokeswoman, Avital Leibovich, told AFP news agency: "From initial checking, we don't have knowledge of this incident. We started an inquiry but we still don't know about it."

Among the dead were nine members of the Samouni family; a picture of three of the family's children in blood-stained clothing laid on a morgue floor and in front of their grieving father was shown in the Guardian on Tuesday. The father, Wael Samouni, said dozens of people had been sheltering in the house after Israeli troops ordered them and neighbours to stay inside.
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The accompanying image is horrific so be warned.

UN School, UN truck driver, UN safe house - what the **** is Israel doing ?

Very soon those sitting on the fence are going to lose their tolerance for this butchery.
 
Xarog said:
Let me spell it out to you :

By claiming that it's ok to bomb Palestinian business centres in the West Bank simply because Hamas happens to be in charge of Gaza, you're effectively claiming that civilian business centres are reasonable military targets.

In other words, you have just voiced support for terrorism.
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Yes, I do think its ok to bomb Palestinian business centres in the West Bank simply because Hamas happends to be in charge. Reason? They put Hamas in charge. They support a terrorist government and they are reaping what they've sowed, the blood of their children is on their own hands. I'm sorry if my view of war is not quite your cup of tea, but this is war and the rules of engagement are little different.
 
Necuno said:
...i'm talking about the oppression leading up too where anc came to be, their terror acts and where we are now. Both them and awb didn't just appear out of no where they were made be circumstances.
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Ah. We're on the same page then. :)
 
JHatman said:
Yes, I do think its ok to bomb Palestinian business centres in the West Bank simply because Hamas happends to be in charge. Reason? They put Hamas in charge. They support a terrorist government and they are reaping what they've sowed, the blood of their children is on their own hands. I'm sorry if my view of war is not quite your cup of tea, but this is war and the rules of engagement are little different.
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You do know that Hamas is not in charge of the West Bank, right? :rolleyes:
 
JHatman said:
Yes, I do think its ok to bomb Palestinian business centres in the West Bank simply because Hamas happends to be in charge....
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That's it for me, in all good conscience I cannot be part of any discussion where this type of mindset is evident. I pray that sanity will prevail. Cheers all.
 
JHatman said:
Nothing like a well placed bomb to let them know who's really in charge ;)
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So I guess then you'd be in favour of the US bombing Israel to teach Saudi Arabia who's in charge? :rolleyes:
 
JHatman said:
Keep at it, you're on a roll here.

/sit
/popcorn
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Obviously I am. Most of the pro-israel posters here have openly advocated bombing people in an area entirely unrelated to the current conflict, which only goes to show just how insane your position actually is.
 
Xarog said:
Obviously I am. Most of the pro-israel posters here have openly advocated bombing people in an area entirely unrelated to the current conflict, which only goes to show just how insane your position actually is.
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Now before you get a head of yourself, sit down, take a few breaths. Jumping to conclusions on not what anyone wants here ;)

Any legitimate terrorist target is worth a strike, and they have businesses creating or hiding weapons then I'm all for it. But obviously not indiscriminate bombing..for obvious reasons.

It just seems that your understanding of a war on terrorism seems somewhat centered around a definite battlefield, which is quite narrow minded. Hamas is a terrorist organisation, its weapons mostly hidden or manufactured in other locations. If those locations are targetted, then thats a good thing right?
 
JHatman said:
Yes, I do think its ok to bomb Palestinian business centres in the West Bank simply because Hamas happends to be in charge. Reason? They put Hamas in charge. They support a terrorist government and they are reaping what they've sowed, the blood of their children is on their own hands. I'm sorry if my view of war is not quite your cup of tea, but this is war and the rules of engagement are little different.
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Yup, as I stated, had they turned over the Hamas terrorists instead of allowing them to conduct their activities in their business districts they wouldn't be targets.

And besides none of it is terrorism. Terrorists don't give you warnings and allow you the opportunity to amend you ways without any blood shed. Terrorists use cloak and dagger methods and come under the cover of night. The problem is many of these people don't view Hamas as terrorists, if they did they'd know the difference.
 
JHatman said:
If those locations are targetted, then thats a good thing right?
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It depends.

If there are civilians in the area, by choice or by lack of choice then you have a responsibility to decide whether the price of killing the bomber is worth the price of dead children/civilians.

This may be an acceptable form of warfare in the Congo or Somalia but one expects more from so-called civilised countries.
 
Unfortunately it is horrible that the children have to suffer here. I just hope Hamas comes out of hiding to take responsibility for what they have done here, if they do so Israel will no longer have any justification to attack. If Hamas really cared about the Palestinian people they would have done this already :/
 
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