The Middle East Conflict Thread

Peder said:
Because according to "war" law, they won it and have rightful ownership
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Illegal under the UN Charter. Israel has ratified the Charter and is thus bound to it.

Because their first action was to obliterate israel.
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No it was not. The people that are the palestinians had no central government, nor a standing army. They were innocent bystanders in the conflict.

Because palastine does not EXIST!!!
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Irrelevant. The people living in the occupied territories do exist and they have the right to self-determination. The same law which brought israel into existence is also the same law that called for the existence of a Palestinian state. For Israel to flout that law means that Israel is flouting the legitimacy of its own existence.
 
Wow, I was going to reply, especially to the evacuation comment, becuase it certainly does happen. But after your comment:

Xarog said:
The fact that Hamas has harmed civilians is extraneous to the cause of this conflict.
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In your desperation to justify Hamas' actions, you have become quite delusional. And I don't think there is any point in continuing such a discussion. It's becuase of people like you why there won't be peace in the middle east.

We need more moderates, progressives on both sides!!
 
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Xarog said:
Illegal under the UN Charter. Israel has ratified the Charter and is thus bound to it.


No it was not. The people that are the palestinians had no central government, nor a standing army. They were innocent bystanders in the conflict.


Irrelevant. The people living in the occupied territories do exist and they have the right to self-determination. The same law which brought israel into existence is also the same law that called for the existence of a Palestinian state. For Israel to flout that law means that Israel is flouting the legitimacy of its own existence.
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You are going around in circles...

Firstly the Arabs/hamas refused to sign the charter unless all land was given back to them and israel were going to come to a compromise but no they want it all!!!

The last 2 parts have been discussed in this thread EXTENSIVELY!!!
 
CTSA said:
In your desperation to justify Hamas' actions, you have become quite delusional. And I don't think there isn't any point in continuing such a discussion. It's becuase of people like you why there won't be peace in the middle east.

We need more moderates, progressives on both sides!!
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People who have no reason to live will not be moderate anything.

It is truly sad that there is a conflict, but you have to face the reality that any people, no matter how patient, no matter how compassionate, no matter how reasonable, will eventually turn to violence if their basic human rights are trampled upon.

The ANC is no different. When black people were denied the right to vote they eventually took up violent means to aquire what they deserved as human beings. The ANC was a terrorist organisation which killed and bombed civilians. But when the ANC was finally given the chance to negotiate, with a real offer at equality, they took it. They also became reasonably moderate. Despite the serious problems within the organisation, they did not turn around and commit genocide.

UNTIL such a time as the base cause for the violent resistance that the Palestinians wage against the occupation is addressed, the violent resistance will continue, no matter how many you kill, no matter how unlivable you make life for them (infact this just turns them more extreme).

Infact, I challenge anyone who criticises the Palestinians for their violent resistance, to to and live for Gaza for a month after the current conflict is over. JUST a month. Go and see how the people there are suffering. Then come back and tell me that their suffering is not the root cause for this conflict. I dare you.
 
Peder said:
You are going around in circles...
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Because people keep bringing up the same bogus claims.

Firstly the Arabs/hamas refused to sign the charter unless all land was given back to them and israel were going to come to a compromise
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Show one source, just ONE source in which Israel actually offers the Palestinians a return to the 1967 borders along with all the fundamental neccessities for an independent Palestinian state.

The last 2 parts have been discussed in this thread EXTENSIVELY!!!
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Yeah, and everyone else bowed out because the facts disagreed with their views. You want to rehash it all, be my guest. You'll just end up in the same position, having absolutely no evidence to show that the people living in the occupied territories were anything but innocent bystanders until WELL after 1967.
 
Xarog said:
Because people keep bringing up the same bogus claims.


Show one source, just ONE source in which Israel actually offers the Palestinians a return to the 1967 borders along with all the fundamental neccessities for an independent Palestinian state.


Yeah, and everyone else bowed out because the facts disagreed with their views. You want to rehash it all, be my guest. You'll just end up in the same position, having absolutely no evidence to show that the people living in the occupied territories were anything but innocent bystanders until WELL after 1967.
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http://honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/critiques/The_Six_Day_War_Forty_Years_On.asp

Edit: the Palestinians EXPECT that Israel just GIVES back the borders? all the borders?

You are diluted...
 
Peder said:
where they are currently living but just in peace...
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Palestinians in the occupied territories have no control over their own borders, they have no self determination; they are NO different than the bantustans that like Transkei and Bophutatswana(sp).

Who could ever accept such conditions?

For the record : I am in favour of Israel annexing both territories and granting Israeli citizenship to everyone who lives there.
 
Since it was Europe that decided on just about all the borders in that area.. including Iraq, Jordan, Iran, Israel and the territory known as Palestine. I think the Israelis should return to the original UN mandated borders. In return I would like the nations around Israel to stop trying to wipe it off the face of the earth and accept that they will have Jewish neighbours.
 
Xarog said:
Palestinians in the occupied territories have no control over their own borders, they have no self determination; they are NO different than the bantustans that like Transkei and Bophutatswana(sp).

Who could ever accept such conditions?

For the record : I am in favour of Israel annexing both territories and granting Israeli citizenship to everyone who lives there.
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that is what israel has done if you have not read...

They took down the walls...
 
there's been apparently an agreement from hamas for 1 week ceasefire- looking for article; just heard it on 702...
 
w1z4rd said:
Since it was Europe that decided on just about all the borders in that area.. including Iraq, Jordan, Iran, Israel and the territory known as Palestine. I think the Israelis should return to the original UN mandated borders. In return I would like the nations around Israel to stop trying to wipe it off the face of the earth and accept that they will have Jewish neighbours.
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I think that would be a reasonable settlement too.
 
...owell can't confirm or deny; 702.co.za is blocked at work.
 
Xarog said:
Palestinians have Israeli citizenship??? :confused:
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as usual you only listen to what you have to say... did you NOT read the links that were given?

Israel said they would live in peace with everyone...

Quick question: Does Israel not want to live with anyone but their kind?
 
Uh-oh... seems there is yet another PR disaster looming-

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3656716,00.html

Witnesses, UNRWA officials said Israeli shells struck world body's headquarters in Strip, wounding at least three people. Ban 'outraged'; IDF yet to confirm report

Ali Waked and Yael Levy Published: 01.15.09, 12:30 / Israel News

Witnesses and UN officials said Israeli shells have struck the United Nations headquarters in the Gaza Strip Thursday.
The compound has been serving as a shelter for hundreds of people fleeing Israel's offensive in Gaza. UN spokesman Chris Gunness says at least three people were wounded.

The entire area is engulfed in smoke and it's not clear whether anyone is still inside the compound.

The compound includes the headquarters of the UN agency for Palestinian refugees, other offices and a school. Gunness says large amounts of aid supplies, as well as fuel trucks, could soon be destroyed.

Guinness told Ynet that the group had received reports from eyewitness "with a military background" suggesting the building was hit by white phosphorus shells
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One would think that UN buildings have become acceptable targets.
 
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