The Middle East Conflict Thread

[Sackboy]

RAS

 

[BBSA]

You are welcome to RBP any posts of mine that you deem outside of the rules. Let's keep to the topics and avoid the insults.

Yes, please explain why American support for Israel is a problem. Is a friend not allowed to help another friend. America have helped a lot of countries in the past.

 

[Sackboy]

Yes, please explain why American support for Israel is a problem. Is a friend not allowed to help another friend. America have helped a lot of countries in the past.

The US helped the Bosnian & Serbian Muslims as well. Not to mention the covert help in Chechnya and Afghanistan.

 

[sand_man]

The US helped the Bosnian & Serbian Muslims as well. Not to mention the covert help in Chechnya and Afghanistan.

Directly or indirectly the US has a hand in just about every conflict in the last 80 years, such is the influence of a super power, same can be said about the Russians...

 

[Sackboy]

Directly or indirectly the US has a hand in just about every conflict in the last 80 years, such is the influence of a super power, same can be said about the Russians...

It's just a shame they often seem to pick the wrong side.

Albanian terrorists/crooks instead of Serbians.
Afghan terrorists instead of official government in the 90's.
Georgians who 'invaded' first.

Even Saddam Hussein was better than what's to come.

 

[sand_man]

It's just a shame they often seem to pick the wrong side.

Well that would be a debate worthy of its own thread. I guess it depends on whether you a commi or a capitalist

 

[semiautomatix]

Georgians who 'invaded' first.
Even Saddam Hussein was better than what's to come.

Iran is clearly showing their true colours, maybe support for Hussein wasn't a bad thing obviously.

Yup, evil Georgians! Invading a part of their own country. Only Russian declares it de facto independent after initially denying Ossetia's sovereignty, using this as a premise to attack. The Russians have never done that, unless you feel that Chechnya is also a de facto independent state

 

[semiautomatix]

Well that would be a debate worthy of its own thread. I guess it depends on whether you a commi or a capitalist

Unfortunately their is seldom a "right" side. Support Georgia and get blamed by the Russians. Support Russia and get blamed by the Chechnyans. Support Chechnya and have the Kremlim come down on you. Support Iran instead of Iraq and get blamed for supporting extremists. Support the USSR and get lambasted for assisting communist rule in Afghanistan. Support Saddam Hussein and get reprimanded for aiding a fascist regime. Invade Iraq and receive world wide disapproval for entering a sovereign state (even though it is a fascist dictatorship).

Please Sackboy tell us who is "right"? After all, Confucius say war not determine who right, war determine who left.

 

[Sackboy]

Iran is clearly showing their true colours, maybe support for Hussein wasn't a bad thing obviously.

Yup, evil Georgians! Invading a part of their own country. Only Russian declares it de facto independent after initially denying Ossetia's sovereignty, using this as a premise to attack. The Russians have never done that, unless you feel that Chechnya is also a de facto independent state

The Georgians massacred Ossetian civilians sleeping in their beds. I guess that's acceptible, so long as they are viewed as their own countryfolk huh?

It was an independent state. 99% of the population wanted it.
Nicaragua has recognized South Ossetia and Abkhazia as well. By international law, it only takes one other state to recognize a new country.

Chechnya is a Russian 'republic', which has a certain amount of autonomy.

Anyway, we are OT. Has anyone recognized Gaza as a country?

 

[ejbengine]

What are your thoughts on this analysis?

The self delusion that plagues both sides in this bloody conflict

 

[semiautomatix]

The Georgians massacred Ossetian civilians sleeping in their beds. I guess that's acceptible, so long as they are viewed as their own countryfolk huh?

So George Bush is definitely justified in invading Iraq. Thought you had a problem with that? Or is it just the US you have a problem with?

It was an independent state. 99% of the population wanted it.
Nicaragua has recognized South Ossetia and Abkhazia as well. By international law, it only takes one other state to recognize a new country.

Yup, my household is 100% in favour of having an independent state. Don't think thats gonna happen though. I sure a lot of Cape Town would prefer independence, but once again... And Russia recognising a state as a premise to attack another country is hardly the noble cause you seem to think it is.

Chechnya is a Russian 'republic', which has a certain amount of autonomy.

It is an independent state (the Chechen Republic). 99% of the population wanted it. Georgia (ironically) has recognized South Ossetia and Afghanistan as well; there have also been calls by the USA. By international law, it only takes one other state to recognize a new country.

So, yes, Russia is exactly the same as Georgia; and Chechnya is exactly the same as South Ossetia.

Anyway, we are OT. Has anyone recognized Gaza as a country?

Yes and no. A Palestinian State was recognised despite the fact the PLO had not territories.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Declaration_of_Independence

However, 96 states recognise the State of Palestine despite the fact that no declaration has been made to include the Gaza Strip and West Bank.

 

[w1z4rd]

Is this the Holy War ?

Jews vs Muslims. I forsee this growing beyond Israel and Hamas only.
About time I say. What do you guys think ?

Theyve being trying to kill each other for centuries. It was worse in the 60`s for Israel.

 

[Sackboy]

So George Bush is definitely justified in invading Iraq. Thought you had a problem with that? Or is it just the US you have a problem with?

I think they should be consistent. They lied about WOMD and then said it was all about ousting Hussein who attacked his own people (Kurds), which brings us back to Georgia, giving the Russians an excuse to invade there (right?)

Yup, my household is 100% in favour of having an independent state. Don't think thats gonna happen though. I sure a lot of Cape Town would prefer independence, but once again... And Russia recognising a state as a premise to attack another country is hardly the noble cause you seem to think it is.

The main reason cited was to protect their peace-keepers (murdered) and civilians (massacred as they slept). It was also a violation of UN mandates. How many reasons do we need??

It is an independent state (the Chechen Republic). 99% of the population wanted it. Georgia (ironically) has recognized South Ossetia and Afghanistan as well; there have also been calls by the USA. By international law, it only takes one other state to recognize a new country.

So, yes, Russia is exactly the same as Georgia; and Chechnya is exactly the same as South Ossetia.

Silly. NO situation is exactly the same. Dare I mention Kosovo, which had less right to be independent than Ossetia. BTW, a 'republic' in Russia is not like a Republic (RSA) country.

Yes and no. A Palestinian State was recognised despite the fact the PLO had not territories.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Declaration_of_Independence

However, 96 states recognise the State of Palestine despite the fact that no declaration has been made to include the Gaza Strip and West Bank.

Now Gaza and West Bank are different governments as well, remember.

 

[Frankie]

Yes, please explain why American support for Israel is a problem. Is a friend not allowed to help another friend. America have helped a lot of countries in the past.

And present - South Korea being one of them.

 

[Sackboy]

And present - South Korea being one of them.

Yes, great success over there too! Boths sides still technically at war ..

 

[Frankie]

Yes, great success over there too! Boths sides still technically at war ..

Yes, very successful in keeping the nutters on the northern side of the DMZ.

 

[semiautomatix]

Now Gaza and West Bank are different governments as well, remember.

I think they should be consistent. They lied about WOMD and then said it was all about ousting Hussein who attacked his own people (Kurds), which brings us back to Georgia, giving the Russians an excuse to invade there (right?)

Just say the USA is justified about Iraq then you won't be wrong about Russia.

The main reason cited was to protect their peace-keepers (murdered) and civilians (massacred as they slept). It was also a violation of UN mandates. How many reasons do we need??

I think they should be consistent. Russia initially claimed the South Ossetia wasn't an independent state.

Silly. NO situation is exactly the same. Dare I mention Kosovo, which had less right to be independent than Ossetia. BTW, a 'republic' in Russia is not like a Republic (RSA) country.

Except you stated that if it is recognised by one other nation, that being Afghanistan and Georgia, then it is an independent nation, right? So Chechen Republic is a the Russian Federation term; lets use the independent Chechen Republic of Ichkeria so as not to confuse the issue, okay?

All your arguments contradict each other. You claim support for the actions of one side against another but ignore those arguments when the side you're supporting does the same thing!

As such, Israel is justified in attacking Palestine in much the same way Arab-Palestine attacked Israel between 1948-1967. What's good for the goose and all.

 

[Sackboy]

All your arguments contradict each other. You claim support for the actions of one side against another but ignore those arguments when the side you're supporting does the same thing!

As such, Israel is justified in attacking Palestine in much the same way Arab-Palestine attacked Israel between 1948-1967. What's good for the goose and all.

It isn't me who's inconsistent. If you look at ANY conflict involving the US, whatever they do is OK, whatever anyone else does is OK, so long as the US approves. They don't seem to have any scruples.

 

[Frankie]

Hamas leader killed after predicting victory

If he suspected he would be targeted the why didn't he make attempts to protect his 4 wives and many children?

Hamas leader killed after predicting victory

Jabaliya, Gaza Strip - The day before a powerful blast sent his headless body flying out of his Gaza home on Thursday, senior Hamas leader Nizar Rayan predicted that the Islamist movement would defeat Israel.

Paramedics believe the dead are members of Rayyan's family who were not evacuated from the building despite receiving warnings from the IDF. Nine of the deceased have been identified as two of his four wives and seven of their children.

 

[Frankie]

IDF Strikes Second Hamas Leader

So much for the claims of indescriminate bombing by Israel

IDF Strikes Second Hamas Leader

The IAF hit a house in the Sheikh Radwan neighborhood of Gaza City on Thursday evening. The strike targeted senior Hamas terrorist Nabil Abu el-Amrin.

Powerful secondary blasts were seen from the air after Amrin's house was hit, confirming IDF intelligence according to which the building was used to store large quantities of explosives and ammunition. It was not immediately clear if Amrin was killed in the strike.