MickeyD
RIP
Rumour has it that there is friction between Clarke and a few other players, who obviously want Smith to be captain.
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The Proteas - Our Team!
- Thread starter MickeyD
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ZCFOutkast
Expert Member
Wouldn't read too much into that. The Indians' 2nd favourite team is SA so if you add up their patriotic votes & their protest votes (which should really belong to AUS), you may actually find that the Proteas are well well behind the Aussies.
A poll recently about the most lethal bowler had Steyn ahead of Johnson by quite a distance. In recent years he wouldn't be ahead of Johnson, Bond, Akhtar&Brett Lee, but if a poll was made tomorrow including those bowlers plus Steyn&Zaheer Khan, he would come first still, with Zaheer second. Get naughty and narrow it down to just Steyn&Donald and I can assure you White Lightning would come a distant second, which in itself reveals how young and clueless some of the poll participants can be.
Personally I think we've got a few great fielders - AB, Farhaan, JP & Faf, two of whom are first class - AB&Faf, but that's about it. The rest are average to awful (Amla, Tahir, Morkel etc) so I don't really understand why we're that high when we should be behind even NZ, and maybe ENG too. Not forgetting the fact that QdK surely can't be among the top 7 keepers at the tournament. Australia have an entire XI of absolutely first class fielders, plus boundary riders with strong arms (Starc, Mitch etc), so should be way ahead of everyone else. Anyway, this poll tells a story about sentiment.
Generally most people are guilty of thinking about a standout fielder then decide that's the best fielding side e.g Jonty Rhodes and the Proteas. To behonest we had plenty of poor fielders in that side. During those old days I personally thought Zimbabwe were by far the best fielding side in the world, followed by NZ. Somehow Jonty seemed to falsely drag us that high up, and a very very poor AUS fielding side was rather masked by Ponting and a couple of guys not forgetting their well known ineptitude at losing.
ZCFOutkast
Expert Member
I'm aware of it. That rumour was brewing long before that article (twitter).
I just think that Bailey is such a good guy. He was batting well for a long time as well as leading the side admirably in Clarke's absence. Unfortunately Bailey has gone and done a "Ryan McLaren" i.e. stunk so much for so many matches leading up to the CWC squad selection, that he had to be dropped at all costs, but some people are feeling pity for him.
Those upset with Michael for whatever reason know that in Smith's current form Bailey would have to miss out for Clarke. With him sitting on the bench there'll be plenty of questions about why&how on earth he was even selected ahead of Shaun Marsh, Cameron White, Ferguson etc.
The Australian press is worse than the English press in my opinion. My theory is Bailey should not be anywhere near that CWC squad. The selectors stuffed up and they don't know how to fix that so they're trying to find a way out. I don't think any of them even thought Smith would do so well in ODIs to be first XI player having been average for the most part. Already they were shockingly leaving out the late Phil Hughes for a very poor Bailey when everyone was fit. His passing made things easier (sorry I don't mean it that way), but they still stuck with Bailey. Biggest mistake!
ZCFOutkast
Expert Member
This always reminds me of the same scenario in football where England are concerned. Somehow the rivalry and animosity is one-sided. The ENglish think they are the Germans' rivals but the Germans always look at the Dutch as their rivals, not England.Actually, Australia already got there first, winning both Cups in 1999. Those darn Aussies...
I've never quite understood where this comes from but in cricket The Aussies only view the English as their rivals, and would consider India ahead of the Proteas in that regard.
As for rugby it's Australia & New Zealand one way.
It's understandable because we try to match ourselves against the best (Rugby - NZ; Cricket - AUS), even our journos buy into that myth, hence why they are our "rivals" in that sense but none of their fans are even bothered by us in either sport. It;s wholly one-sided.
India have done a good job of rubbing the Aussies up the wrong way and they've had some pretty tense & sensitive confrontations (which make the whole Clarke-Steyn drama look like a joke). Personally I think the Indians engineered the whole thing to spruce up their cricket in the Australian image and paint a picture of aggression so lacking in the identity of their cricket side for decades.
In my view this is all a waste of energy from IND&SA's poitn of view. Forget the fact that IND gave SA their first Test post "isolation", those two should have had their own rivalry going. Right now we could've had our own "ashes equivalent" going for many years. So many epic 5 Tests Series and history against greats were wasted (Ganguly, Azharuddin, Kumble, Sachin, VVS, Srinath, Dravid, Bhaji, Srinath etc). Instead it's a few 2/3 match series after so many years! Sad&Pathetic! Misplaced egos (from both sides) can be damaging.
You realize Morkel is ranked number 10 in ICC's ODI list? you know, that list you cant manipulate, and you get your name on their by being a good bowler.
Speaking about bowlers, did anyone see the warriors game on the weekend? Theron, for his death bowling came on and took 4 wickets at the end, they weren't just easy wickets, 3 of them, the stumps went flying. Now when you look at that, and look at Abbott, you just have to ask yourself why is Abbott there. Then in yesterdays game, Theron gets 33 of 19 not out against the cobras.
ZCFOutkast
Expert Member
That was unbelievable to watch. Perfect yorkers! Even Waqar Younis would've been proud.
His batting wasn't an abonormality. Remember him and Parnell ahve one the Proteas a T20 match from an unlikely situation. I think it was aginst the Aussies too.
Everything else aside, I think he was bowling 135kph on average. So I guess that nonsensical talk about him being dropped because he was way too slow can be ditched now. Abbott, Philander & McLaren are hardly any faster. Even Steyn stock ball in ODIs is around 13kph too.
ZCFOutkast
Expert Member
Yet even octogenarians and novices are streets ahead of him in that latest list
3 724 D.W. Steyn SA 746 v India, 08/12/2013
4 706 J.M. Anderson ENG 719 v South Africa, 19/06/2013
7 636 M.A. Starc AUS 647 v India, 26/01/2015
10 628 M. Morkel SA 717 v Sri Lanka, 14/01/2012
His history doesn't lie too!
Best Ever ODI Rankings
3 917 S.M. Pollock SA 917 v Pakistan, 14/02/2007
29 794 A.A. Donald SA 794 v Australia, 23/01/1998
34 782 M. Ntini SA 782 v West Indies, 25/01/2004
53 746 D.W. Steyn SA 746 v India, 08/12/2013
55 743 L.L. Tsotsobe SA 743 v New Zealand, 03/03/2012
66 727 K.M.D.N. Kulasekara SL 727 v New Zealand, 08/09/2009
70 722 K.D. Mills NZ 722 v Australia, 06/02/2009
73 717 M. Morkel SA 717 v Sri Lanka, 14/01/2012
Sorry he's as much a liability as Abbott in my view. He can only boss ordinary players like he did Ramdin. Parnell's left-arm pace&swing will add more value to the Proteas.
In Harare vs Zimbabwe http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/736453.html
In Harare vs Australia http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/736455.html. Parnell did more to secure the win in the final.
In Sydney vs Australia http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/754731.html. Again Parnell did more for the win. Morkel had conceded enough damage for a possible loss by the time he got a rather fortuitous wicket.
in PE vs West Indies http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/722345.html. Yet another embarassing episode where Parnell schooled Morkel (and Abbott) how to bowl.
Putting the absolutely hopeless Abbott aside, no one gets hit for more boundaries&sixes than Morne Morkel for the Proteas lately. He is the fastest bowler for the team but he hardly ever bowls quick because he's always on the defensive getting carted to all corners of the park. On average Morkel has been bowling slower than Parnell who in truth has been the team's fastest seamer.
Yes the rankings show he's in the top ten, but over the last four matches where both Parnell&Morkel have played together in the same match, Parnell has been vastly superior to him. I'd go with current form which is precisely what I've done. Not to mention his last showing where admittedly Morkel wasn't palying, but as things stand they are progressing in different directions - Parnell imroving, Morkel regressingly alarmingly. Even you have to admit that.
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England Lions tour of South Africa, 4th unofficial ODI: South Africa A v England Lions at Pretoria, Feb 2, 2015
Been watching this match today between South Africa A v England Lions. Seems some of the aspirant bowlers got some heavy tap from a heavily in form Ben Stokes. Apart from Chris Morris, the rest were given a wee hiding. Eina!
Source: http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/737437.html
Been watching this match today between South Africa A v England Lions. Seems some of the aspirant bowlers got some heavy tap from a heavily in form Ben Stokes. Apart from Chris Morris, the rest were given a wee hiding. Eina!
Source: http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/737437.html
Hulle ouens gaan sukkel om die totaal te haal!
England Lions 378/6 (50.0 ov)
South Africa A 78/2 (14.3 ov)
South Africa A require another 301 runs with 8 wickets and 35.2 overs remaining
South Africa A RR 5.31
Last 5 ovs 26/1 RR 5.20
Required RR 8.51
England Lions 378/6 (50.0 ov)
South Africa A 78/2 (14.3 ov)
South Africa A require another 301 runs with 8 wickets and 35.2 overs remaining
South Africa A RR 5.31
Last 5 ovs 26/1 RR 5.20
Required RR 8.51
Neoprod
Honorary Master
Ben Stokes was the best thing about England's last Ashes hiding...fine player with bat and ball. Why is Ontong still in the A-side at his age?
In the midst of the above debate, may I ask this; is Ben Stokes in the England CWC Squad? If not, why not? He seems to be in sublime form at the mo. Had a decent BBL and scoring good runs now here in SA too. Just curious. Over and out (till later).
Neoprod
Honorary Master
Different strokes, I guess...I would have dropped him and made Elgar or Vilas captain. A-side should be for players who need experience at better-than-provincial level or currently can't get into the Proteas because there's someone else selected for their spot.
Basically, I'm agist
Basically, I'm agist
ZCFOutkast
Expert Member
So they have Marchant but he doesn't get the new ball instead Shezi in his first game - around 15kph slower - shares the new ball with Morris.
Is Ontong thinking straight?? Why is he even there??As for the selectors, why on earth did they drop i.e. rest Rabada their best bowler before this match?
Anyway SA A deserve a hiding. Some guys mentioned Rudi Second, but even Mosehle would've been a better bet than Vilas. Even if he gets a ton today like Ontong(&MvW) those guys are serial failures!!!
Dean "Ed Cowan" Elgar remains consistent with his healthy starts, but if he's not scoring big hundreds at a high strike rate for a man of his experience then he must forget about the ODI side.
On a side note, which foreign player has ever really failed here either playing in the domestic competitions or for their A side?
AirWolf
Honorary Master
AirWolf
Honorary Master
Q:
A:
A:
So they have Marchant but he doesn't get the new ball instead Shezi in his first game - around 15kph slower - shares the new ball with Morris.
As for the selectors, why on earth did they drop i.e. rest Rabada their best bowler before this match?
Anyway SA A deserve a hiding. Some guys mentioned Rudi Second, but even Mosehle would've been a better bet than Vilas. Even if he gets a ton today like Ontong(&MvW) those guys are serial failures!!!
Dean "Ed Cowan" Elgar remains consistent with his healthy starts, but if he's not scoring big hundreds at a high strike rate for a man of his experience then he must forget about the ODI side.
On a side note, which foreign player has ever really failed here either playing in the domestic competitions or for their A side?
Stefanmuller
Expert Member
I see they are playing at Mamelodi Oval. Is it a small ground, seeing that Stokes hit 15 sixes?
ZCFOutkast
Expert Member
Lol Stokes faded terribly after the Ashes down under. I didn't think anyone still considered him around the England national team 12+ months later so was more concerned about why he was doing so well with the bat.
TL;DR
But bet it goes something like :
Blah Blah Blah Blah...Morkel not good enough...Blah Blah Blah...Parnell best bowler in the world....Blah Blah Blah Blah.....I have no idea what im talking about.....Blah Blah Blah Blah.......Random stats......Blah Blah Blah
How did I do?
Fact of the matter is anyone wanting to drop the current 10th best ODI bowler in the world, well it speaks allot about that persons cricket knowledge
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