The SA Politics Thread Part 2

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mojoman

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TheChamp

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PrimeSteak said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612720513381535744
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I am afraid that is simply not good enough, looks like they are flatly refusing to take responsibility here, they are way too many damning things in that report that simply cannot be explained away by saying they inherited a bankrupt metro.

They should talk to each and every point on that report.

Several of the misstatements Maluleke lists in her report run into the billions each. These include:

  • Assets under construction were classified as completed assets, which resulted in an overstatement of depreciation of more than R2 billion;
  • The city reported R6.4 billion of trade payables, in other words, payments to suppliers that were outstanding at year-end. According to the AG report, this was understated by almost R5 billion, which means Tshwane was owing businesses more than R11 billion on June 30 2022;
  • In the summary of consumer receivables by customer classification, the understatement was R2.3 billion and the amounts did not correspond with the amounts under gross balances;
  • The municipality left out loans to the value of almost R900 million in the reporting about loans payable in the year following the reporting date;
  • The city stated salaries and wages at R7.4 billion. Middelberg points out that the amount on the draft budget was almost R12 billion. Maluleke said: “I was unable to obtain sufficient appropriate audit evidence for salaries and wages because the municipality was unable to provide information and supporting documentation to support the amount recorded for salaries and wages due to an inadequate system of internal control.”;
  • The city duplicated the contingent liabilities disclosure, which led to an overstatement of almost R4 billion; and
  • Fruitless and wasteful expenditure was understated by R1 billion.
 
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ToxicBunny

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PrimeSteak said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612486005231345668

As retarded as this idea is, how can you justify this? So Soweto gets free power, but everyone else must pay?

And if everyone else is exempted as well, where will Eskom get the money to, you know... FUNCTION?

Just a stupid idea all round...
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Yeah Cyril, you can go and fsck yourself...

I wonder what sort of legal precedent could be set if Soweto get another "debt write-off"... I'm sure a few big boys with deep pockets could actually challenge the entire fact that we are forced to pay Eskom at all.
 
TheChamp

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PrimeSteak said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612486005231345668

As retarded as this idea is, how can you justify this? So Soweto gets free power, but everyone else must pay?

And if everyone else is exempted as well, where will Eskom get the money to, you know... FUNCTION?

Just a stupid idea all round...
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Writing of debt does happen, especially when chances are that you are not going to get that money back. For me the most important thing is not the debt, it is getting the Sowetans to pay for the electricity now. Generally how it happens is that a debt write off comes with conditions of full disclosure so as to encourage successful collection going forward or putting the debtor on an indigent program if they are unable to pay.
 
ToxicBunny

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TheChamp said:
Writing of debt does happen, especially when chances are that you are not going to get that money back. For me the most important thing is not the debt, it is getting the Sowetans to pay for the electricity now. Generally how it happens is that a debt write off comes with conditions of full disclosure so as to encourage successful collection going forward or putting the debtor on an indigent program if they are unable to pay.
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It does happen yes, but for Soweto this will be the 2nd or 3rd "debt write-off" and that just reinforces the culture of "fsck you, I'll not pay cos I know you'll just write it off"
 
TheChamp

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ToxicBunny said:
It does happen yes, but for Soweto this will be the 2nd or 3rd "debt write-off" and that just reinforces the culture of "fsck you, I'll not pay cos I know you'll just write it off"
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I think the first two write of is where things were not done right, Eskom could only start cutting off Soweto only after Ramaphosa took over. There were no conditions set and it was just a write off with no plan of how it was going to encourage payment.
 
ToxicBunny

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TheChamp said:
I think the first two write of is where things were not done right, Eskom could only start cutting off Soweto only after Ramaphosa took over. There were no conditions set and it was just a write off with no plan of how it was going to encourage payment.
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Entirely likely, but doing another debt write-off now, even with conditions is pointless. The culture of non-payment is firmly entrenched and if they do another debt write-off with conditions, it won't change sweet fsck all.
 
TheChamp

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ToxicBunny said:
Entirely likely, but doing another debt write-off now, even with conditions is pointless. The culture of non-payment is firmly entrenched and if they do another debt write-off with conditions, it won't change sweet fsck all.
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There is proof that the payment has improved ever since the firm handedness, there was an article I osted here with Eskom confirming that, so the prospects are encouraging.

The sanction of load reduction is unsustainable as measure to force people to pay because it punishes everyone, even those who are paying, the big idea according to me is to make sure that people start to pay for electricity and if the debt is a stumbling block to people being compliant it should be removed, as long as that is done in a way that promotes compliance.
 
ToxicBunny

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TheChamp said:
There is proof that the payment has improved ever since the firm handedness, there was an article I osted here with Eskom confirming that, so the prospects are encouraging.

The sanction of load reduction is unsustainable as measure to force people to pay because it punishes everyone, even those who are paying, the big idea according to me is to make sure that people start to pay for electricity and if the debt is a stumbling block to people being compliant it should be removed, as long as that is done in a way that promotes compliance.
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If Eskom was a largely financially sound entity, I would potentially agree with you... as it stands right now, Eskom can't afford to suck up another R5bn just going *poof* from its monies owed. The risk to the country is ultimately too great really. They need to recover every single cent owed to them at this point.
 
TheChamp

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ToxicBunny said:
If Eskom was a largely financially sound entity, I would potentially agree with you... as it stands right now, Eskom can't afford to suck up another R5bn just going *poof* from its monies owed. The risk to the country is ultimately too great really. They need to recover every single cent owed to them at this point.
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The potential of them getting that R5bn is very slim, so what do you do, continue chasing the R5bn that you might never get, or chart the way forward? I believe as things are with the constant cutoffs many residents are not very keen on the continued standoff with Eskom, so what do you do with those? If someone says I am prepared to get the prepaid meter and buy electricity but I don't have money to pay for the debt what do you do as Eskom?

It's simple to me, Eskom has taken the right stance on Soweto, but the standoff cannot continue forever, yes it would be nice for Eskom to get the R5bn but it would also be nice if the start getting an income from Soweto, if there is a potential for the tradeoff then do it.

The difference between the Eskom then and the Eskom now is that the current one has done well to rid itself of the politics of Soweto and they are able to take good decisions, I will trust them much better to handle the situation that the Eskom of the Zuma time.
 
ToxicBunny

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TheChamp said:
The potential of them getting that R5bn is very slim, so what do you do, continue chasing the R5bn that you might never get, or chart the way forward? I believe as things are with the constant cutoffs many residents are not very keen on the continued standoff with Eskom, so what do you do with those? If someone says I am prepared to get the prepaid meter and buy electricity but I don't have money to pay for the debt what do you do as Eskom?

It's simple to me, Eskom has taken the right stance on Soweto, but the standoff cannot continue forever, yes it would be nice for Eskom to get the R5bn but it would also be nice if the start getting an income from Soweto, if there is a potential for the tradeoff then do it.

The difference between the Eskom then and the Eskom now is that the current one has done well to rid itself of the politics of Soweto and they are able to take good decisions, I will trust them much better to handle the situation that the Eskom of the Zuma time.
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It is a complicated situation without a doubt... but a blanket debt write-off is not the solution at all, even if Eskom will never actually see that R5bn it is owed.

At first pass, I wouldn't even make it an option, I would say everyone in Soweto must be on Pre-paid, finish and klaar... and every household that has a debt loses 10% of their electricity purchases going forward to begin covering that debt. There have to be actual and tangible consequences for their actions, but not ones that mean they are deprived of power unreasonably.
 
ShaunSA

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TheChamp said:
I think the first two write of is where things were not done right, Eskom could only start cutting off Soweto only after Ramaphosa took over. There were no conditions set and it was just a write off with no plan of how it was going to encourage payment.
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Yes. This time it will be different. Same with that new state bank :cool:
 
grok

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ToxicBunny said:
Yeah Cyril, you can go and fsck yourself...

I wonder what sort of legal precedent could be set if Soweto get another "debt write-off"... I'm sure a few big boys with deep pockets could actually challenge the entire fact that we are forced to pay Eskom at all.
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Stop paying our municipal bills, tax revolt. Outa come help facilitate this.

Or everybody just start sending their electricity bill to the presidential hotline with the cover words of Dear Dreadful, how bout I can haz write-off too?
 
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