The SA Politics Thread Part 3

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cr@zydude said:
I prefer the natural threshold of percentage require to achieve a seat, in the 400 seat National Assembly, that's around 0.25%
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The "natural threshold" is a meme... The threshold is only theoretical since it's only seen after all seats are divvied up. It means nothing in actual practice, unlike an actual threshold.

Also, the "natural threshold" in 2019 was 0.18% (Al Jama-ah).
cr@zydude said:
The threshold helps bigger parties and drives out small ones, you can call that stable, but it is less democratic.
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I disagree. The thresholds prevent the "tyranny of the minority" in that one or two one-man band parties that get 0.1% of the vote each, cause complete chaos in council/parliament, etc (like we've seen in GP) or we get completely unstable councils like the 25 party ETH...

I would understand "but democracy"-like arguments, if it was something unreasonably high like in Turkey (7%), but come on, it's 1%...
 
Theoretically what would happen now as far as the Gauteng metros are concerned if we were to apply the proposed threshold, how would it affect the number of seats?
 
TheChamp said:
Theoretically what would happen now as far as the Gauteng metros are concerned if we were to apply the proposed threshold, how would it affect the number of seats?
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PrimeSteak said:
But check this out, if this threshold is implemented...

TSH - 16 parties to 5
JHB - 19 parties to 8
CPT - 17 parties to 9
NMB - 13 parties to 10
BUFFALO - 9 parties to 4
ETH - 25 parties to 8 parties
EKH - 16 parties to 8
MAN - 9 parties to 7

As you can see, if something as simple as a 1% threshold is implemented, the amount of parties represented in council in metros on avg is reduced by at least 50%... Making things more stable.
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TheChamp said:
Yes, I saw that, I am asking about seats specifically and how the power dynamics would be affected.
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I assume the PR seats in the council will be calculated with the quota using 1% of total votes instead of how it's done rn.
If you're referring to the possibility of it being immediately enforced onto councils once the bill is passed, I doubt it. Either the threshold will be implemented in 2026 or the gov might just do an early LGE.

Not sure, what'll happen if the threshold bill passes...

P.S. Just saying it won't affect the total amount of seats available in each council. They stay the same.
 
PrimeSteak said:
The "natural threshold" is a meme... The threshold is only theoretical since it's only seen after all seats are divvied up. It means nothing in actual practice, unlike an actual threshold.

Also, the "natural threshold" in 2019 was 0.18% (Al Jama-ah).

I disagree. The thresholds prevent the "tyranny of the minority" in that one or two one-man band parties that get 0.1% of the vote each, cause complete chaos in council/parliament, etc (like we've seen in GP) or we get completely unstable councils like the 25 party ETH...

I would understand "but democracy"-like arguments, if it was something unreasonably high like in Turkey (7%), but come on, it's 1%...
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You think that 7% is too high, I think that anything above the natural threshold is too high. Yes, current councils are unstable, but the parties elected were done so by the will of the people.
 
PrimeSteak said:
Agree to disagree then?
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We may need too. It's not as if there is if there is a perfect way to run an election and you're smart enough to accept that different viewpoints are not personal attacks.

As far as council and government stability goes. Would you back a system with a mayor or governor or State President with reserve powers for when councils fail?
 
cr@zydude said:
We may need too.
and you're smart enough to accept that different viewpoints are not personal attacks.
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That's why I'm asking you to agree to disagree... I'll take it as a yes :)
cr@zydude said:
It's not as if there is if there is a perfect way to run an election
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Our electoral system on national and provincial level does need an overhaul tho... With some minor reforms in local government.
cr@zydude said:
As far as council and government stability goes. Would you back a system with a mayor or governor or State President with reserve powers for when councils fail?
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Define "reserve powers". Do you mean "strongman" Presidencies like in France and Turkey, etc?
 
PrimeSteak said:
That's why I'm asking you to agree to disagree... I'll take it as a yes :)

Our electoral system on national and provincial level does need an overhaul tho... With some minor reforms in local government.

Define "reserve powers". Do you mean "strongman" Presidencies like in France and Turkey, etc?
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Yes, can agree to disagree on thresholds.

For reserve powers, think President of India or Germany. I still want a parliamentary system, but would like some sort of safeguard. Think of a situation where South Africa is attacked between a vote of no confidence and a new President being elected.
 
cr@zydude said:
For reserve powers, think President of India or Germany. I still want a parliamentary system, but would like some sort of safeguard.
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I think when it comes to powers in the President and Parliament, we're good.

Although I'd prefer the President and other heads like Premiers, etc to be directly elected.

The Deputy Presidency is essentially a meme, that can be abolished or can maybe be converted to a prime ministerial office (and split the current Presidential powers between the two).
Think of a situation where South Africa is attacked between a vote of no confidence and a new President being elected.
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Could you elaborate?
 
Looks like the residents of the Independent Republic are getting poor, I thought this smallernyana hike would be nothing to them.

This is in spite of many objections against this during the public participation process for the City's 2023/24 budget. The City also gets away with adding an 'unregulated' 37.47 cents to each electricity unit they sell. STOP COCT and others, therefore, lodged a complaint [with] Nersa regarding the City of Cape Town's policy and practice.
Dickson added the public had been "shamelessly exploited".

"It is not palatable to hear propaganda about a 'well-run' City with 'clean audits' while the greater public is shamelessly being exploited [by] this City and its tariff-setting policies. This is the direct result of a metro with one political party dominating it, and opposing any of these is ineffective," she said.
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www.news24.com

Cape Town faces 'several' energy regulator complaints over its 17.6% electricity price hike | News24

Amid ever-increasing costs of living, there is mounting pressure on the City of Cape Town after it implemented a 17% electricity tariff hike - greater than the National Energy Regulator of South Africa's recommended 15.1%.
www.news24.com www.news24.com
 
PrimeSteak said:
Not sure.
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It's the one, a series of unfortunate events for Masina.

www.sabcnews.com

Court sets aside 2022 ANC Ekurhuleni Regional Conference results - SABC News - Breaking news, special reports, world, business, sport coverage of all South African current events. Africa's news leader.

The Eighth Regional Conference of the Ekurhuleni Region of the African National Conference, held at the Indaba Hotel in Fourways on 27 to 29 May 2022, and all decisions, resolutions and election results emanating from the Conference has been set aside by the Gauteng High Court in Johannesburg.
www.sabcnews.com www.sabcnews.com
 
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