The SA Politics Thread

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TheChamp said:
It's perfectly understandable for ATM unless you have forgotten who they are?
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No, I haven't, it's the "plausible deniability" RET party.
TheChamp said:
They are the party that was apparently founded by the Zuptoids to reduce support from the ANC and make Cyril look bad, one of their leaders is Mzwanele Manyi, who is now Zuma's spokesperson, they are the party which was busy calling for a motion of no confidence against Ramaphosa, so everything checks out on that side.
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I know. I have a suspicion that if RET loses again at the end of the year, they might flock to ATM...
TheChamp said:
It's Holomisa's deal that I don't understand, but I do understand that he has interest in the ANC's factional battles so it must be related to that.
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Same.
 
PrimeSteak said:
No, I haven't, it's the "plausible deniability" RET party.

I know. I have a suspicion that if RET loses again at the end of the year, they might flock to ATM...

Same.
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I don't think they will move to the ATM, there's no need to, Zuma has found a way to unite various parties around his corrupt vision, they can just stay in the ANC while counting on the support of those other parties. Getting out would be a very bad idea.
 
TheChamp said:
I don't think they will move to the ATM, there's no need to, Zuma has found a way to unite various parties around his corrupt vision, they can just stay in the ANC while counting on the support of those other parties. Getting out would be a very bad idea.
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It depends. I honestly don't see the two factions kumbaya like what happened in 2017 and a while after.

I tend to think that whoever wins at the end of the year keeps the party and the other faction leaves. The results of this conference are giving me the same vibes as the way the NP split into KP and NP after the "perestroika" period of the NP began...
 
www.dailymaverick.co.za

Reserve Bank smoked out Guptas' money laundering Bank of Baroda before State Capture findings

Without the Bank of Baroda, the Gupta corruption and racketeering enterprise would not have been able to smuggle billions out of South Africa to fund its international ambitions, evidence before the State Capture Commission of Inquiry revealed.
www.dailymaverick.co.za www.dailymaverick.co.za

On a side note, imagine if these ****ers somehow managed to loot the National Treasury... We would've been truly done for...
www.news24.com

Zuma was 'determined' to hand over Treasury to the Guptas, but resistance stalled its capture | Business

Former president Jacob Zuma and the Guptas failed to capture Treasury because of the resistance by former finance ministers Pravin Gordhan, Nhlanhla Nene and other department officials.
www.news24.com www.news24.com
 
PrimeSteak said:
It depends. I honestly don't see the two factions kumbaya like what happened in 2017 and a while after.

I tend to think that whoever wins at the end of the year keeps the party and the other faction leaves. The results of this conference are giving me the same vibes as the way the NP split into KP and NP after the "perestroika" period of the NP began...
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Would you leave if you had the benefit of staying in the party, getting all the inside information on the enemy to use against them? Remember the clip they leaked of Cyril talking about people in the ANC abusing state funds? Where would they get that if they no longer have the benefit of attending NEC meetings?
 
TheChamp said:
Would you leave if you had the benefit of staying in the party, getting all the inside information on the enemy to use against them? Remember the clip they leaked of Cyril talking about people in the ANC abusing state funds? Where would they get that if they no longer have the benefit of attending NEC meetings?
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The whole thing is they are fighting for total control of the party.

What assurance do you have that after the conference, regardless of who wins, the winning faction won't start pushing the other out of the party looking at the sheer disunity and infighting? And the thing is the vehement infighting didn't start this year, it started in 2019/2020, it's been coming for a long time. It will have a dramatic conclusion.
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1524435778369114113

I can agree with point two. It's weird how so many things that could've been used to everyone's advantage after 1994 like the railways, and the colleges mentioned in the tweet, etc were either neglected to destruction or completely dismantled by the gov.

Point one is a bit of a complex topic tho. Since our Constitution says that everyone has the right to life. But my question is, "Since everyone has rights and so has responsibilities coming with those rights, why should someone who massacred a hospital, for example, get the right to exist? Seeing that they violated/removed others' rights, they automatically forfeit theirs?".

My stance is if it would be implemented again, it should only be used for the most severe crimes and the cases for this should be bulletproof with indisputable evidence only.

IMO it should be put to a national vote. So that we can gauge who supports and who opposes it.
 
PrimeSteak said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1524435778369114113

I can agree with point two. It's weird how so many things that could've been used to everyone's advantage after 1994 like the railways, and the colleges mentioned in the tweet, etc were either neglected to destruction or completely dismantled by the gov.

Point one is a bit of a complex topic tho. Since our Constitution says that everyone has the right to life. But my question is, "Since everyone has rights and so has responsibilities coming with those rights, why should someone who massacred a hospital, for example, get the right to exist? Seeing that they violated/removed others' rights, they automatically forfeit theirs?".

My stance is if it would be implemented again, it should only be used for the most severe crimes and the cases for this should be bulletproof with indisputable evidence only.

IMO it should be put to a national vote. So that we can gauge who supports and who opposes it.
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For me one of them is deliberately reducing the capacity of government through outsourcing, we now have an extremely incapacitated government that cannot do anything without a tender.

This has done absolutely nothing to save costs or to empower and upskill our people, it has instead resulted in a government that cannot act in time and that had opened itself to manipulation and beholden to the tenderpreneurs who are benefiting from all the tenders as well as the various mafia groups who feel entitled to get a slice of the pie, regardless if they can do the job.
 
TheChamp said:
For me one of them is deliberately reducing the capacity of government through outsourcing, we now have an extremely incapacitated government that cannot do anything without a tender.

This has done absolutely nothing to save costs or to empower and upskill our people, it has instead resulted in a government that cannot act in time and that had opened itself to manipulation and beholden to the tenderpreneurs who are benefiting from all the tenders as well as the various mafia groups who feel entitled to get a slice of the pie, regardless if they can do the job.
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I completely agree here. I just find it weird and stupid to break **** down from the old regime, that the new gov could've used to everyone's advantage and instead outsource everything to everyone's dismay... That's why I agree with ASA and the insourcing since the gov shouldn't have to put out 19 billion tenders to just get basic stuff done, the sphere of government involved (local, national or provincial) should be able to handle it themselves.

I wonder and perhaps this is a bit OT to the topic at hand, but I wonder why people don't write public/civil service exams for entering the civil service like many other countries such as South Korea, Singapore, Brazil, etc do (it's a logical choice)? Wouldn't that along with background checks ensure that only the best of the best and most competent would be able to work in the public service?
 
PrimeSteak said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1524435778369114113

I can agree with point two. It's weird how so many things that could've been used to everyone's advantage after 1994 like the railways, and the colleges mentioned in the tweet, etc were either neglected to destruction or completely dismantled by the gov.

Point one is a bit of a complex topic tho. Since our Constitution says that everyone has the right to life. But my question is, "Since everyone has rights and so has responsibilities coming with those rights, why should someone who massacred a hospital, for example, get the right to exist? Seeing that they violated/removed others' rights, they automatically forfeit theirs?".

My stance is if it would be implemented again, it should only be used for the most severe crimes and the cases for this should be bulletproof with indisputable evidence only.

IMO it should be put to a national vote. So that we can gauge who supports and who opposes it.
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So Capital Punishment is a very tricky subject... it does absolutely nothing to actually reduce the crime rate of those sorts of things from the way I understand the research on it. I would also be very nervous of asking our population to make the call because we have a very bloodthirsty population in general so a referendum is largely a forgone conclusion that Capital Punishment would be back on the table. I would also be very wary of handing that sort of legal power to our government who are morally unbalanced at the best of times.

I for one would be looking more at something like proper life imprisonment and having to work to earn your keep during that imprisonment, and also having zero chance of parole (the kind of punishment our treasonous fscktard Jacob should have to go through in my opinion)
 
ToxicBunny said:
So Capital Punishment is a very tricky subject...
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I agree with you there.
ToxicBunny said:
I would also be very nervous of asking our population to make the call because we have a very bloodthirsty population in general so a referendum is largely a forgone conclusion that Capital Punishment would be back on the table. I would also be very wary of handing that sort of legal power to our government who are morally unbalanced at the best of times.
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Ok, I see your point.
ToxicBunny said:
I for one would be looking more at something like proper life imprisonment and having to work to earn your keep during that imprisonment
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Agreed. Let the prisoners do things to the advantage of society in jail, chain them together and have them clean streets and parks for example, so they can properly atone. Instead of you going to jail and you have fun there cause you can just bribe your way around and do whatever the **** you like...
ToxicBunny said:
and also having zero chance of parole (the kind of punishment our treasonous fscktard Jacob should have to go through in my opinion)
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I completely agree here. After Zondo 5, I hope part of the final recommendations will be that Jacob gets treason charges. It's all he deserves, life without parole, regardless of his buddies throwing a tantrum like July 2021... He betrayed our country for his and his buddies' own gain, it's what he deserves.

I think those who directly collaborated with him and the Guptas should also get treason charges and the lower ranks perhaps grand corruption and the like.
 
sefeddt said:
Joins a host of former ANC/Gvt politicians (Maharaj, Yonela Diko etc) , muted while in position so as to defend their jobs but suddenly with a conscious after leaving.
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He was fairly vocal, unlike the people you mentioned.
 
ForceFate said:
What do you mean? Like Putin in Ukraine, Bush Jr. did everything within his influence to invade.
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I guess I worded it a bit shitely. 2003 Iraq was a mistake by the US Coalition.

I meant that I do agree that SA was right in condemning 2003 Iraq. That was wrong and so is the invasion of Ukraine.
 
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