The Syrian Conflict Thread

Winning: Everyone Is A Loser In Syria

November 23, 2015: There are no winners in Syria but plenty of losers. The country has been devastated. What Syria has lost since 2011 includes some 300,000 dead and over 700,000 wounded or injured. Some 55 percent of the population needs of some kind of aid (food, medical, fuel, shelter). About 35 percent of the population has been driven from their homes meaning they have no jobs and lost most personal property. Since 2011 life expectancy has been cut from 75 to 62 years. Half the school age population no longer have access to a school. Over four million Syrians have fled the country, mostly to Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan. GDP has shrunk by at least half since 2011 and over 70 percent of the population reduced to poverty.

The economic damage can be seen in satellite photos which show that, compared to similar nighttime pictures from 2011, only about 20 percent of the lights are still visible at night. Many of the Syrians who fled the country (over 20 percent so far) will never return. There is little to return to in part because some Islamic terror groups admit that they are not attacking towns and villages in order to occupy them but simply to hurt the troops or pro-government militiamen guarding them. The rebels loot and trash the places they take and then depart before thegovernment can organize a counterattack (by land or air). These raids also look for people worth kidnapping and holding for ransom. There are still many Syrian families with assets, although most of these are living in government controlled territory (about a fifth of the country). But there are still people you can get a decent ransom for so this is yet another reason for people with any resources to get out of Syria. What assets the family has are often then spent on smugglers who will get all or some of the family into Western Europe, where jobs and public assistance are available.

The UN is having little success in getting access to nearly five million refugees inside Syria. Over ten percent of these refugees are literally under siege by government or rebel forces. For the rest road access passes through government and rebel territory. Most of the Syrian population now depends on food aid to survive. The Assad government is surviving, in the fifth of the country it controls, largely because of aid from Iran and Russia.

ISIL (al Qaeda in Iraq and the Levant) has become a major presence in Syria since 2014 and controls most of eastern Syria. ISIL is at war with the government and the other rebels because it believes it is on a Mission From God that supersedes everyone else. ISIL is adding to the misery Syrians are suffering and causing more destruction by their own efforts as well as the growing number of bombs the rest of the world is dropping on them. All wars end eventually but in Syria there is not even a hint when this one will.
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http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htwin/articles/20151123.aspx

But the Russians want to put Assad back ???
 
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Xarog said:
Actually the Russians are fine with democratic elections after the civil war ends according to what they've said.

But nice try blaming everything that's happened in Syria on Assad. I suppose all the people that have been funding ISIS and the other Salafist extremist groups are blameless, huh?
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Nice try thinking that there is going to be anyone left to vote.

This election BS is a red herring, cannot possible have a fair election with so many dead, refugees, and displaced persons.

Maybe in 20 years.

Assad was responsible for starting it, and letting it continue. Others took advantage.
 
Jola said:
Nice try thinking that there is going to be anyone left to vote.
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Well, if no one's left vote it obviously won't matter very much.

This election BS is a red herring, cannot possible have a fair election with so many dead, refugees, and displaced persons.
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So then an election isn't possible either way.

Maybe in 20 years.

Assad was responsible for starting it, and letting it continue. Others took advantage.
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The fact that the United States has admitted to the authenticity of documents which show that they've been trying to stir up anti-government sentiments among the country's Sunnis since 2006 kinda points the finger in the opposite direction, actually.
 
Xarog said:
The fact that the United States has admitted to the authenticity of documents which show that they've been trying to stir up anti-government sentiments among the country's Sunnis since 2006 kinda points the finger in the opposite direction, actually.
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Source, details, links ?
 
Xarog said:
Mind you, it was in the other thread, so:

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06DAMASCUS5399_a.html
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Nothing in that one, just a position paper, I'm sure they do that on all countries, including Russia/Putin and South Africa/Zuma.
Would have been surprised if they didn't do these analyses.

Xarog said:
http://levantreport.com/2015/05/19/...-state-in-order-to-isolate-the-syrian-regime/
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Nothing in here that isn't public knowledge. Of course the US supports the Assad opposition (since Assad is a War Criminal, they are probably morally/ethically obliged to do so).

Very confusing document.

And it would not surprise me if some aid was provided.

Xarog said:
http://levantreport.com/2015/10/06/...-principality-memo-to-international-audience/
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Only says that USA analysis (link before this) was accurate. duh


Not sure what you are getting at, there is nothing here ?
 
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Jola said:
Nice try thinking that there is going to be anyone left to vote.

This election BS is a red herring, cannot possible have a fair election with so many dead, refugees, and displaced persons.

Maybe in 20 years.

Assad was responsible for starting it, and letting it continue. Others took advantage.
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Having an election that is properly monitored is the best way to solve this democratically.
 
Unhappy438 said:
Having an election that is properly monitored is the best way to solve this democratically.
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For all Middle Eastern countries or just the ones the USA doesn't like?

I thought you were a coup supporter - as in the Ukraine thread.
 
Unhappy438 said:
Having an election that is properly monitored is the best way to solve this democratically.
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Yes, in theory.

But after Assad's War Crimes, and a Civil War, as well as massive civilian casualties from bombings, and millions of refugees fleeing the country.

Is it even possible, I don't think so.
 
Jola said:
But the Russians want to put Assad back ???
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He never left, and remains the legitimate leader of the Syrian nation.

Unhappy438 said:
Having an election that is properly monitored is the best way to solve this democratically.
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Pipe dreams - Middle East - Democracy - never going to happen in world governed by tribalism, sectarianism and ideological fanaticism

Democratic values are based upon and grow from historical events within a country, they dont simply happen at a polling station or in places that have no understanding of the values or freedoms within civil society that democracy is based upon.
 
Nanfeishen said:
He never left, and remains the legitimate leader of the Syrian nation.
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Not really, at one point he was only in control of a portion of the country.

It's slightly bigger now, but still small.

Can a person accused of War Crimes against his people be a legitimate leader ? Hmm, could have an interesting ethical/moral debate about that one.

What would the murder and torture victims, civilian casualties, refugees and displaced persons have to say about that ?

It is going to be interesting to see how he rules from his cell at the ICC in The Hague. Wonder if he will get permission to use his cellphone ? Unlikely.
 
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Jola said:
Not really, at one point he was only in control of a portion of the country.

It's slightly bigger now, but still small.

Can a person accused of War Crimes against his people be a legitimate leader ? Hmm, could have an interesting ethical/moral debate about that one.

What would the murder and torture victims, civilian casualties, refugees and displaced persons have to say about that ?

It is going to be interesting to see how he rules from his cell at the ICC in The Hague. Wonder if he will get permission to use his cellphone ? Unlikely.
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The people fighting the regime don't believe in democracy. Which is better?
 
Nanfeishen said:
Pipe dreams - Middle East - Democracy - never going to happen in world governed by tribalism, sectarianism and ideological fanaticism

Democratic values are based upon and grow from historical events within a country, they dont simply happen at a polling station or in places that have no understanding of the values or freedoms within civil society that democracy is based upon.
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Of course a democratic vote can take place, the only question is if democracy will remain after the vote. What's your plan to end this all?
 
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