The Syrian Conflict Thread

Xarog

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Exactly, if i took American statements at face value i wouldn't consider the possibility of them being false.
Where have you considered the possibility that they are false? It's precisely because you don't consider that a possibility and present your opinion as based in "fact" that I'm criticising your posts. You, for whatever reason, have ruled out this possibility without reasonable justification. And frankly because you are not capable of doing independent verification of the American assertions, your choosing to believe in their veracity can be nothing but taking their assertions to be true at face value.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/face-value?s=t


I dont find this to be an acceptable excuse, you should know what you're bombing otherwise its just indiscriminate bombing.
I don't know who can have advanced knowledge of what lies inside every building in the middle of a civil war.

Grantza said:
A U.S. military official told CNN that U.S. forces were not operating in the area of the hospital, and their closest strike had been 20 kilometers (12.4 miles) to the north.

Marco, with Doctors Without Borders, told CNN that two barrel bombs hit buildings near the hospital. The injured were rushed to the hospital and relatives hurried there. A third barrel bomb landed at the facility's gate, causing many of the casualties, he said.
So sounds very much like there were militants in multiple buildings. I can't think of a single armed force in the world that would disengage in a combat situation just because the people that are shooting at them and they are shooting at just ran into another building...

And as an aside, I wonder what the date of that US strike 20 kilometers away was.

And when Syrian government officials react like this to the bombing of an MSF hospital

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/sit...016/02/syria-conflict-russia-msf-france.html#

It becomes abundantly clear that providing their location will only make things worse for them.
While you have a point, that doesn't have any bearing on whether or not whoever pulled the trigger could know they were bombing a hospital.
 

Xarog

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Authored by Eric Zuesse via Strategic-Culture.org,

The great investigative journalist Seymour Hersh, in two previous articles in the London Review of Books ("Whose Sarin?" and "The Red Line and the Rat Line") has reported that the Obama Administration falsely blamed the government of Syria’s Bashar al-Assad for the sarin gas attack that Obama was trying to use as an excuse to invade Syria; and Hersh pointed to a report from British intelligence saying that the sarin that was used didn’t come from Assad’s stockpiles. Hersh also said that a secret agreement in 2012 was reached between the Obama Administration and the leaders of Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar, to set up a sarin gas attack and blame it on Assad so that the US could invade and overthrow Assad.

"By the terms of the agreement, funding came from Turkey, as well as Saudi Arabia and Qatar; the CIA, with the support of MI6, was responsible for getting arms from Gaddafi’s arsenals into Syria."

Hersh didn’t say whether these 'arms' included the precursor chemicals for making sarin which were stockpiled in Libya, but there have been multiple independent reports that Libya’s Gaddafi possessed such stockpiles, and also that the US Consulate in Benghazi Libya was operating a "rat line" for Gaddafi’s captured weapons into Syria through Turkey. So, Hersh isn’t the only reporter who has been covering this. Indeed, the investigative journalist Christoph Lehmann headlined on 7 October 2013, "Top US and Saudi Officials responsible for Chemical Weapons in Syria" and reported, on the basis of very different sources than Hersh used, that:

"Evidence leads directly to the White House, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Martin Dempsey, CIA Director John Brennan, Saudi Intelligence Chief Prince Bandar, and Saudi Arabia´s Interior Ministry."

And, as if that weren’t enough, even the definitive analysis of the evidence that was performed by two leading US analysts, the Lloyd-Postal report, concluded that:

"The US Government’s Interpretation of the Technical Intelligence It Gathered Prior to and After the August 21 Attack CANNOT POSSIBLY BE CORRECT."

Obama has clearly been lying.

However, now, for the first time, Hersh has implicated Hillary Clinton directly in this 'rat line'. In an interview with Alternet.org, Hersh was asked about the then-US-Secretary-of-State’s role in the Benghazi Libya US consulate’s operation to collect weapons from Libyan stockpiles and send them through Turkey into Syria for a set-up sarin-gas attack, to be blamed on Assad in order to ‘justify’ the US invading Syria, as the US had invaded Libya to eliminate Gaddafi. Hersh said:

"That ambassador who was killed, he was known as a guy, from what I understand, as somebody, who would not get in the way of the CIA. As I wrote, on the day of the mission he was meeting with the CIA base chief and the shipping company. He was certainly involved, aware and witting of everything that was going on. And there’s no way somebody in that sensitive of a position is not talking to the boss, by some channel".

This was, in fact, the Syrian part of the State Department’s Libyan operation, Obama’s operation to set up an excuse for the US doing in Syria what they had already done in Libya.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-...y-approved-sending-libyas-sarin-syrian-rebels
 

NarrowBandFtw

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access

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I thought their neo-Nazi president went all out rightwing nationalist and called their own Russian speaking citizens, Russian seperatists. well that's what I got from the Russians and ukranians living in ukraine...

some of the funniest things I saw on media about this saga, was when they said the troops are coming down from the russian border. as if its IMPOSSIBLE to walk there yourself and then walk down in that direction. for some reason walking in a direction was a indication of your nationality. the pics and videos I saw did not show any symbols or signs on their gear, the people showing the pics said they did not see any either, it was said they have no idea who the soldiers belong to.

saw some random videos online too, where some soldiers with american and south african accents responded when people confronted them. then those videos led to covert merc training camps and blabla, it got weird.

but just read up on the crazy stuff this Ukrainian president says, he must have syphilis on the brain or something. got it from Mugabe.
 

Unhappy438

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Where have you considered the possibility that they are false? It's precisely because you don't consider that a possibility and present your opinion as based in "fact" that I'm criticising your posts. You, for whatever reason, have ruled out this possibility without reasonable justification.

Right here: http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthr...ict-Thread?p=17526678&viewfull=1#post17526678


And frankly because you are not capable of doing independent verification of the American assertions, your choosing to believe in their veracity can be nothing but taking their assertions to be true at face value.

The only independent verification i could do is to look and see if i can find something that debunks the USA's bombing logs. I have looked, i have requested for others in this thread to provide if they have anything but nothing has been forthcoming. If you have something please post it.



While you have a point, that doesn't have any bearing on whether or not whoever pulled the trigger could know they were bombing a hospital.

Since they have tried giving their coordinates and that didn't work, the excuse that they don't know what they are bombing isnt an excuse at all. Its a lie.
 

Unhappy438

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and so we head into tinfoil hat territory.....

"Whose Sarin?" doesnt seem to be tinfoil hat territory, Obama himself recently seemed to confirm it. The article gets all Zerohedgy though when it draws imaginary lines and lays blame at Obama. The reason the US didn't initiate a full scale war with Assad is because of Obama. In my mind the Sarin gas was more likely to do with someone like the Saudis.
 

Noah

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Now THIS is ****posting

http://news.sky.com/story/1688756/is-files-reveal-assads-deals-with-militants

:: An agreement with the Syrian regime to withdraw IS weapons from Palmyra.
https://twitter.com/DPRKJones/status/727300459774382080
gud 1

:: A deal between IS and Syria to trade oil for fertiliser and;
I'm guessing the deals relating to the Aleppo power station that's now under SAA control.

:: Arrangements to evacuate some areas by Islamic State forces BEFORE the Syrian army attacked.
Same as the top one.
 

NarrowBandFtw

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Source: http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-mideast-crisis-syria-hospital-idUKKCN0XU0UR
Rebels bombarded government-held areas of Aleppo with rockets on Tuesday, killing 19 people and hitting a hospital, while also launching a ground assault on army-held positions of the divided city, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said.

Wonder if these are the "moderates" that keep getting weapon drops. On the upside, for once a hospital in Aleppo got hit without the blame automatically going to the same party it usually does ...
 

Unhappy438

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Xarog

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Disgusting most of the rebels are just as despicable as Assad, but i guess they didn't have that hospitals coordination's, am i right guys?
For all you know the rebels could have been the ones to blow the other hospitals up too.
 

Unhappy438

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For all you know the rebels could have been the ones to blow the other hospitals up too.

Yup they got themselves aircraft's and blew up their own hospitals. They don't use the aircraft for anything other than blowing up their own hospitals as well.

For all you know it could be Freddy Krueger.
 
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Xarog

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Yup they got themselves aircraft's and blew up their own hospitals. They don't use the aircraft for anything other than blowing up their own hospitals as well.

For all you know it could be Freddy Krueger.
Is there conclusive proof that aircraft were involved? I see conflicting reports in that regard.
 

Unhappy438

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Is there conclusive proof that aircraft were involved? I see conflicting reports in that regard.

Is there conclusive proof that aircraft are involved in the bombing of hospitals in Syria? Yes. Is there conclusive proof that the rebels have bombed their own hospitals? I would have thought they were too busy eating their own grenades to have time to blow up their own hospitals.
 

Xarog

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Is there conclusive proof that aircraft are involved in the bombing of hospitals in Syria? Yes.
And yet there's still conflicting reports about the other hospital strike, with one group saying "missile" and another group saying "barrel bomb". I mean, call me crazy, but I would think "missile" and "rocket" are rather similar.

Is there conclusive proof that the rebels have bombed their own hospitals? I would have thought they were too busy eating their own grenades to have time to blow up their own hospitals.
So there's only one group of rebels now?
 

Unhappy438

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And yet there's still conflicting reports about the other hospital strike, with one group saying "missile" and another group saying "barrel bomb". I mean, call me crazy, but I would think "missile" and "rocket" are rather similar.

Which group indicates a missile that doesn't come from an aircraft?


So there's only one group of rebels now?

Stop being so vague, if you want to point towards in faction fighting be more specific. Which rebel group is supposedly responsible for this then?
 

Xarog

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Which group indicates a missile that doesn't come from an aircraft?
I guess by that standard we have conclusive proof that MH-17 was shot down by aircraft, eh? Maybe they just saw the missile and assumed it came from an aircraft. So again, is there conclusive proof that an aircraft was involved?

Stop being so vague, if you want to point towards in faction fighting be more specific. Which rebel group is supposedly responsible for this then?
I don't have to be specific to establish reasonable doubt.
 

Unhappy438

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I guess by that standard we have conclusive proof that MH-17 was shot down by aircraft, eh? Maybe they just saw the missile and assumed it came from an aircraft. So again, is there conclusive proof that an aircraft was involved?

So tell me then, what ground to ground missile system did the rebels use to level the hospital?


I don't have to be specific to establish reasonable doubt.

Rofl. If you want to be taken seriously in your musings then you need to be specific, otherwise it merely comes across as incoherent ramblings.
 
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