The Syrian Conflict Thread

UN says 6.25 Million Syrians displaced as US builds Strike Case

Syria's civil war has displaced 6.25 million people - the largest refugee group of any country in the world - the UN said Tuesday.

This means that nearly a third of the pre-war population of some 20 million Syrians has been displaced inside the country or has fled across borders.

The UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) said the number of refugees abroad has passed 2 million, an increase of 1.8 million over the last year. More than half are children.

As of late August, 4.25 million Syrians had fled to safer areas within the country.

Ministers from Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey are scheduled to meet in Geneva on Wednesday to seek support for their efforts to provide for Syrian refugees, nearly all of whom are being hosted by countries in the region.

So far, the international community has funded less than half of the 2.98 million dollars needed by UN and other aid organizations this year to help Syrian refugees.

"Syria has become the great tragedy of this century - a disgraceful humanitarian calamity with suffering and displacement unparalleled in recent history," said UN High Commissioner Antonio Guterres.

The latest figures come as a debate on the authorization of military strikes in response to an apparent poison gas attack in Syria was to begin later Tuesday in the United States.

Defence Secretary Chuck Hagel and Secretary of State John Kerry are due to testify before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

A day ahead of a parliamentary debate in France on the issue, the government hinted that it could bow to domestic pressure to hold a vote on any military action.

Minister for Relations with Parliament Alain Vidalies told RTL radio that holding a vote was "not a taboo subject for Francois Hollande," despite the government's insistence that the president has no constitutional obligation to do so.

France has been ramping up efforts to build support for military action, on Monday releasing an intelligence report that said the attack near Damascus "could only have been ordered and carried out by the regime."

A strike seemed imminent at the weekend, but tensions eased when US President Barack Obama said he wanted Congress - in recess until September 9 - to vote to authorize any intervention.

Syrian President Bashar Al-Assad hit back at critics, telling French daily Le Figaro that his government had nothing to gain from using chemical weapons "when our situation on the ground is much better today than it was last year."

In the interview, published Tuesday, al-Assad appeared to rule out the hypothesis that the order to use chemical weapons could have been given by a subordinate, without his knowledge.

"We have never said we possess chemical weapons ... but normally, in countries that have such weapons, the decision is centralized."

UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon is scheduled to brief the 10 non-permanent members of the UN Security Council later Tuesday on the latest developments in the chemical weapons investigation.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel told legislators that she was still hoping the UN Security Council could come up with a unified response, and criticized Russia and China's "overall very uncompromising line."

An EU diplomat said that the international community should wait for UN inspectors to complete their report on the use of chemical weapons in Syria before taking action.

"We of course condemn in the strongest terms the attack and we call for the international community to take strong action ... But let's wait until definitive information has been drawn together before we do that, particularly by the UN inspectors," said Michael Mann, a spokesman for foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton.

Mann added that US Secretary of State John Kerry is expected to discuss Syria with the European Union's foreign ministers on Saturday.

Meanwhile, the Israeli Defence Ministry said Tuesday that Israel had fired a test rocket over the Mediterranean, in what could have been the basis for an earlier Russian Defence Ministry report that two ballistic missiles had been launched from the central Mediterranean towards its eastern shore.


Source : Sapa-dpa /sdv
Date : 03 Sep 2013 15:12
 
Only saw it this morning haven't had time to read 9 pages, i said i would read it tonight in my last post, i will do so tonight. See grant you think i am on assads side or russias side or chinas but i am on the side that worries about al nusra coming to power and lack of planning for a post assad syria, lebanon and israel. If there is proof he was responsible then they cannot just bomb a regime change like libya. They need a post assad plan. Great assad is gone, victory for everyone except lebanon israel, jordan, turkey, iran and more than likely russia. The plan has to include removal of both assad and al nusra or all hell is going to break lose. This isn't iraq or libya.

I will read the report tonight in the mean time grant, give me your post assad bomb regime change proposal. I could care less if assad runs the country or some other idiot, my concern lies with al nusra, chemical weapon stockpiles and lack of a post assad plan. As soon as i am back from dinner i shall read the french report.

A very good point.

As it stands right now, it's a lose-lose scenario all round.

If they truly believe that he is guilty of killing his people via chemical weapons, is there no recourse to the The International Court of Justice.
 
Russia says it detected two missile launches in the Mediterranean

Russia on Tuesday announced its early warning system had detected the launch of two ballistic missiles from the central part of the Mediterranean Sea fired towards the Sea's eastern coastline.

The launches took place at 10:16 am Moscow time (0616 GMT) and were detected by the early warning system in Armavir in southern Russia, the defence ministry said in a statement quoted by Russian news agencies.

It said Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu had already reported to President Vladimir Putin about the event, which comes amid growing expectations of Western military action in Syria.

"The launch was detected by the early warning radar in Armavir," the Interfax news agency quoted the defence ministry as saying.

"The trajectory of the targets in question was from the central part of the Mediterranean Sea towards the eastern part of the Mediterranean coastline," it added.

"Sergei Shoigu has already reported to Vladimir Putin -- the commander-in-chief of the Russian armed forces -- about the discovery of the launch of the ballistic targets," it said.

No further details were immediately available.


Source : Sapa-AFP /pk
Date : 03 Sep 2013 11:36
 
Explosion on Turkey-Syria border kills six: Turkish media

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/03/us-syria-crisis-turkey-explosion-idUSBRE9820OZ20130903

(Reuters) - An explosion on the border between Turkey's southern province of Hatay and Syria killed six people on Tuesday, Turkish media said, but there were conflicting reports about the cause and exact location of the blast.

Some Turkish television reports said the explosion was at an ammunition depot in the Altinozu district of Hatay, while other media reports said the blast happened in a vehicle carrying scrap metal on the Syrian side of the border.

(Reporting by Jonathon Burch and Seda Sezer; Writing by Nick Tattersall; Editing by Pravin Char)
 
Ok so it has been sometime now, not a single post assad plan by anyone? bomb syria and that is the plan that is supported even if he is guilty basically, even if he isn't bomb him without a plan.

Damn i hope congress blocks this ridiculous idea. Regardless let's say fine assad did it. What are a few bombs going to change? Apart from obama saving face about his red line i cannot see what a few bombs are going to achieve other than more people dying. How are they bringing peace or helping anyone by bombing assad?

I don't think people understand assad is protecting 2 million christians. What is the plan for those people post assad, chemical stockpile lebanon, israel, so much could go wrong but bomb them is the plan being put forward, is this a freakin comedy show we are watching? Al nusra will make the slaughter of the jews by hitler look small if they get syria as their base to launch attacks from and get hold of the chemical weapons that can be launched hundreds of miles. Chemical car bombs sounds about right. Chemical suicide bombers.

How on earth people are people supporting this kind of idiotic attack is beyond me. Typically america, drop bombs and we win. 10 years later thousands of dead troops and people that hate you is the result of your proven to work bomb them plans. It has never worked, bomb them but first get congress to agree. That is a plan? They bombed and attacked an entire country with chemicals and napalm and walked away with 50000 dead troops and nothing achieved other than destroying a country and forcing people to go in and die for absolutely nothing. If he is guilty remove him fine but have a plan for peace, without a plan you are planning for chaos not peace.
 
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Obama on Syria strike: 'This is not Iraq'

US President Barack Obama met with key members of Congress at the White House as part of a campaign to persuade Congress to authorize military action against Syria.

The president reiterated that his plan to respond to the use of chemical weapons in Syria's civil war would be limited and designed to degrade the Syrian regime's capabilities.

"The key point that I want to emphasize is the military plan that has been developed by the joint chiefs of staff is proportional. It is limited. It does not involve boots on the ground. This is not Iraq. This is not Afghanistan," Obama said.

The two party leaders in the House of Representatives - Speaker John Boehner of the Republican Party and Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi of the Democratic Party - were in attendance, along with other members of congress.


Source : Sapa-dpa /sdv
Date : 03 Sep 2013 18:42
 
Israel says Missile tested in joint exercise with US

Israel on Tuesday launched a missile over the Mediterranean in a joint exercise with the United States that came as Washington mulls punitive air strikes on Syria.

Speculation mounted after the missile firing at 0615 GMT, with Russia's defence ministry saying its early-warning system had detected two ballistic missile launches from the central Mediterranean sea fired towards the eastern coastline, where Syria is located.

But the Pentagon said the exercise had no connection to possible attacks against the Syrian regime, and that it was a standard drill designed to assess Israel's missile defences.

"This test had nothing to do with United States consideration of military action to respond to Syria's chemical weapons attack," Pentagon spokesman George Little said.

US President Barack Obama said earlier he was confident of winning congressional approval for military action against Syria that would involve cruise missile strikes launched from US warships in the Mediterranean.

Only after the Russian reports did Israel's defence ministry announce it had carried out the missile test.

"The Israeli defence ministry and the American MDA (Missile Defence Agency) Tuesday morning at 9:15 (0615 GMT) successfully launched an Ankor-type radar missile," it said in a statement.

"The test was launched from the Mediterranean and directed from an army base in the centre of Israel," it said.

The defence ministry statement mentioned only one missile.

The test involved a new version of the Ankor (Sparrow) missile "and was concluded at... a test range over the Mediterranean Sea," a separate Israeli defence ministry statement said.

The missile was to test missile tracking capabilities, local media reported.

Defence Minister Moshe Yaalon downplayed the significance of the test's timing, saying on a visit to a military base that the "exercise was planned a long time ago."

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu lauded Israel's missile defence capabilities.

"Our security depends on Iron Dome (the country's vaunted missile defence system), and our will of iron, which are the things that will give us the power to defend ourselves," he said at the opening of a technology park in central Israel.

"Those thinking of attacking us must know that it's not in their interest."

Russian news agencies said Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu had reported to President Vladimir Putin about the event, which comes amid growing expectations of Western military action in Syria.

Putin, a vocal critic of the West's policies on Syria, has expressed strong doubt that Syrian President Bashar al-Assad was behind an alleged chemical attack on August 21 that has prompted calls for military action.

Obama's decision on Saturday to ask Congress to authorise military action against Syria lifted the threat last week of immediate strikes against Assad's government.

Netanyahu said on Sunday Israel was prepared for "every possible scenario" in Syria, as Israelis rushed to collect gas masks, fearing possible reprisals against the Jewish state for US-led military action against a hostile neighbour.

But President Shimon Peres ruled out Israeli involvement in any intervention.

"It is not for Israel to decide on Syria, we are in a unique position, for varying reasons there is consensus against Israeli involvement. We did not create the Syrian situation," he said.


Source : Sapa-AFP /mm
Date : 03 Sep 2013 17:35
 
Zuma says this Zuma says that -endlessly on the news.

Does he think anyone actually gives a flying @#$% about his thoughts on Syria ?
 
OMgosh, you are not going to believe this situation i just watched on cnn.

First of all they have undeniable evidence that nobody is buying into, because undeniable means something different to the US government than it does to the rest of the world. If i had undeniable proof i would present it to the UN and make it public. secondly even if russia veto and china as well, they will look like the bad guys with undeniable evidence that UN believes for once. Lastly if they had undeniable proof the UN agreeing would certainly help if russia and china vetoed which they would not if the proof was undeniable. Undeniable means no one can deny it, by avoiding presenting the evidence that is undeniable you cannot make that claim. When kerry made the speech and spoke like the evidence they have is simply overwhelming but it can't be released iraq alarm bells started going off.

So their evidence is not undeniable as they have presented no evidence. If sand is undeniable proof assad did it i can only imagine the joke they have for undeniable this time but guess what the UN has not been approached, obama is having to fight for approval. O well, they have no evidence that proves anything other than as kerry so amazingly pointed out yesterday there was a chemical attack. Ok they first crossed the line and obama said it was undeniable, his undeniable proof was sand. Now again undeniable proof they cannot publicly release and nobody is really sure anymore who actually did this because the US are so secretive.
 
Zuma says this Zuma says that -endlessly on the news.

Does he think anyone actually gives a flying @#$% about his thoughts on Syria ?

Yes because this country and the ANC are the poster child of a negotiated peaceful settlement. In which Zuma played a prominent role
 
No one buys into:

1. Undeniable sand was not good enough, remeber this sand proved assad was using chemical weapons. Magical sand i guess.
2. Undeniable evidence they cannot release to the public or UN, again nobody is really buying into it.
3. Obama was forced to get approval first, this shows obama does not have support due to the lack of evidence. O sorry undeniable evidence like the sand.

Ok what now guys, they are not buying into anything like they did in iraq. We will have try our play our last hand.

http://news.sky.com/story/1136599/syria-defector-exposes-assad-chemical-attack Basically iraq all over again. Why is there no original stuff, same old iraq BS. Will this be their last hand and will it be a royal flush or a bunch of crap. Time will tell.

Iraq in a nutshell. Will this man convince the masses finally. Defector with evidence. Boy o boy. Shame. Kerry is the right man for this job, he can lie knowing the truth. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eorge-Bush-add-credibility-invasion-Iraq.html
 
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Yes because this country and the ANC are the poster child of a negotiated peaceful settlement. In which Zuma played a prominent role

Yup the ANC are the only terrorist organization to call for peace and not war when the dictatorship finally caved. Regardless of the country now, if you look at dictatorships to fall this country is bloody dreamland compared.

So does anyone believe curveball 2.0?
 
No one buys into:

1. Undeniable sand was not good enough, remeber this sand proved assad was using chemical weapons. Magical sand i guess.
2. Undeniable evidence they cannot release to the public or UN, again nobody is really buying into it.
3. Obama was forced to get approval first, this shows obama does not have support due to the lack of evidence. O sorry undeniable evidence like the sand.

Ok what now guys, they are not buying into anything like they did in iraq. We will have try our play our last hand.

http://news.sky.com/story/1136599/syria-defector-exposes-assad-chemical-attack Basically iraq all over again. Why is there no original stuff, same old iraq BS. Will this be their last hand and will it be a royal flush or a bunch of crap. Time will tell.

Iraq in a nutshell. Will this man convince the masses finally. Defector with evidence. Boy o boy. Shame. Kerry is the right man for this job, he can lie knowing the truth. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eorge-Bush-add-credibility-invasion-Iraq.html

Again, read from here: http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthr...ict-Thread?p=10783911&viewfull=1#post10783911 to here, where you duck out as usual: http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthr...ict-Thread?p=10791679&viewfull=1#post10791679

Also, what makes you so sure, that Russia is not simply experimenting on some Muslims some more..? You're a fan of "if they did it before then they must be doing it again"...right?

The “sporadic basis” and the relatively small number of victims—three thousand—as a result of about a hundred cases of the use of chemical agents in the period under discussion tend to support Fraile’s suggestion that the Soviet Union had used Afghanistan as a guinea pig for its experiments with chemical warfare.

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthr...ict-Thread?p=11078903&viewfull=1#post11078903
 
Kerry has just said the rebels have not been increasingly infiltrated by al qaeda as the war has gone on. :wtf:
 
Kerry has just said the rebels have not been increasingly infiltrated by al qaeda as the war has gone on. :wtf:

Alan he said just now the worst element is al nusra, he then goes on to say that al nusra are not the strongest force. He is straight up lying.

He has said worst case scenario if assad falls and the worst element al nusra get the chemical weapons they would need boots on the grounds.

Watching them lie blatantly on live tv once again is scary. Absolutely pathetic kerry, you are a liar sir. Al nusra are the strongest, best equipped and the strongest force in syria right now. He neglects to mention they are assassinating rebel leaders, al nusra are at war with the kurds because al nusra killed 450 innocent kurds. Boy the lies coming out his, all of their mouths are beyond belief.

He neglects to mention al nusra will not negotiate peace, they have said they are not fighting for the syrian people.

Collateral damage low, they have a number of syrians that can die via their strikes that is acceptable :eek:. Kerry is looking upset. Hagel is about to lie about, the outcome may be worse if they strike. They don't agree. "I have never been told to change the momentum just degrade assads military capability". What a silly answer. Considering obama has pledged to remove assad.

Kerry lying, by degrading him you make extremists stronger? kerry says no. Kerry has basically said ground troops could be used. Senator tuning him broken about his lack of UN approval. Resolution supports boots on the ground when/if the strike on syria goes wrong. They have no plan if there is a response from syrias friends. Kerry does not believe assad would use chemical weapons again, just when the UN inspectors were there. He doesn't believe assad will be stupid enough to use it again, why would he be stupid enough to use it the first time? So kerry does not believe he is stupid yet he gassed his own people when US inspectors arrive?
 
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How could US target chemical weapons?

The US is pushing for military action in Syria in response to a suspected chemical weapons attack. But can President Barack Obama target the country's chemical arsenal?

Speaking at the end of last month, he set out clearly the goal of any US military action against Syria.

Its purpose, he explained, would be "to hold the Assad regime accountable for their use of chemical weapons, [to] deter this kind of behaviour, and to degrade their capacity to carry it out".
Now Mr Obama is seeking Congressional approval for any strike, but many questions remain, not least the scale and scope of any attack and the extent to which it might target chemical weapons facilities directly.

On the face of things this is probably highly unlikely.
Some elements of the Syrian chemical weapons complex may be buried underground but large parts of it can easily be seen on satellite images.Much of it is reasonably close to populated areas - and this is the problem. Attacking such sites with regular explosive bombs might well wreak considerable damage but it could also open up chemical weapons stocks to the air, disperse them over a large area, and potentially cause large numbers of civilian casualties.

For years the United States has been seeking to develop warheads that could be used to destroy chemical weapons stocks without the dangers described above.
So-called "Agent Defeat Weapons" are probably available to US commanders. They operate in various ways but the essential feature is intense heat - it is like a super-incendiary bomb - that destroys the chemical or biological agent in situ.
The temperatures needed are dramatically high, within the range of 1,200C to over 1,500C.
Though some experts suggest that these highest temperatures would be required to destroy biological material, chemical weapons like the nerve agent VX for example would be destroyed at the lower end of the range.

The exact status of these munitions in the US arsenal is uncertain. One system is known as "crash pad" - a high-temperature incendiary weapon. Another is called the Passive Attack Weapon or PAW which depends upon the kinetic energy of a mass of steel or tungsten rods to produce the necessary heat.
Nonetheless the scale of the Syrian facilities and their proximity to civilians may convince US planners to avoid targeting CW sites altogether. There may perhaps be elements of these installations that can be hit - for example, power supplies. But a safer option might be to target other aspects of Syria's capability, especially delivery systems.
This would mean striking artillery and rocket systems; aircraft; maybe even missile production facilities. Headquarters and other buildings associated with units linked to the chemical weapons programme could also be struck.

But here there is another problem for President Obama. Many of these potential targets - artillery and aircraft for example - are a key element of President Assad's superiority over the rebels.
If you damage these assets badly enough you risk significantly altering the military balance on the ground in favour of the rebels. And this is something that Mr Obama has apparently ruled out. Maybe he is changing his mind as he seeks to win over a sceptical Congress.

Mr Obama has a doubly difficult task. First to sell the idea of a punitive strike to politicians with a variety of views at home; but then to calibrate the scale and scope of the attack itself, if it goes ahead, to ensure that it delivers the necessary warning while not totally overturning the situation on the ground.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23946071
 
Grant why are you avoiding watching kerry and co lie live on tv?

Done now. Wow that was long and kerry looked frustrated and angry at some of the questions. He won't declassify any important information so it can be denied, thus calling undeniable which it isn't until proven as such. No idea how to fix this

He reckons assad would not be stupid enough to use chemical weapons a second time, only the first time, somehow assad went crazy and is now back to normal but kerry does not think a limited military strike with a calculated number of civilians that will die would make assad attack anyone.

He does not foresee it escalating into more violence with a strike, if it does escalate the limited that is, in his resolution he can basically use the full might of the US military meaning boots on the ground to attack or join the attack something he said in his first speech would not happen and could not happen yet his resolution suggests otherwise. He then says assad will use chemicals if they don't act. Not sure what is is confusing here

The general isn't concerned about the four russian fleets in the Mediterranean, they think assad will just allow them to attack syria and do nothing thus leading to the question what if they do something(syria, iran or russia possibly china) and the current resolution which will be revised does not exclude a full fledged boots on the ground war if assad or any friend responds against the US or her allies. makes perfect to me

Fascinating how they know a strike will bring peace to syria and it won't escalate the violence nor will assad who is so crazy and gassing people be stupid enough to use his chemical stock piles against anyone kerry said. The man gassed his own people according to kerry yet kerry believes assad would not be so stupid to use it again. He says it would not be logical do it again, was it logical do it the first time? seems legit to me

How can he claim assad won't use more chemical weapons? when he keeps saying assad will use more chemicals if they don't strike. Anyhow pity the meeting is a closed session to show this undeniable proof to only certain people. looks fine

If i have lost you my bad but i don't know how to sum it up better than i have done. Grant i didn't removed or add anything even though i edited. Anyways if this post is confusing then yea i guess i cannot put across any better.
 
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Russia very much prefers the Assad regime because he is helping to block the flow of natural gas out of the Persian Gulf into Europe, ensuring higher profits for their own gas pipeline to Europe.
 
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