The Syrian Conflict Thread

AntiGanda

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So the war Bush started in Iraq had nothing to do with it, eh?
Did Obama stop it, or prevent it spreading? Is it over now after Obama has been in office so long?

At what point does he take ownership of an old problem?

got to love people that post videos on the likes of youtube with headings like:
BANNED INFO PUTIN EXPLAINS WHO SUPPORTS ISIS

banned info - a room full or journalists and aired on rt - banned info ?
then of course the titles in capital letters - the voice of both absolute gospel and authority
I didn't write that, but a video of a press conference is just that. No need to explain a thing really.
 

OrbitalDawn

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Did Obama stop it, or prevent it spreading? Is it over now after Obama has been in office so long?

At what point does he take ownership of an old problem?

So you think he should re-commit thousands of troops to Iraq?

He is taking a smarter approach and not getting stuck in another Vietnam/Iraq.

The regional powers need to take responsibility and sort ISIS out. The Saudis, Turkey, Iran, etc have massive standing armies. As someone else pointed out, these nations are using this conflict to pursue out their own political agendas.
 

AntiGanda

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So you think he should re-commit thousands of troops to Iraq?

He is taking a smarter approach and not getting stuck in another Vietnam/Iraq.

The regional powers need to take responsibility and sort ISIS out. The Saudis, Turkey, Iran, etc have massive standing armies. As someone else pointed out, these nations are using this conflict to pursue out their own political agendas.
The same guy who promised to shut Gitmo?
 

AntiGanda

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[video=youtube;vJnJjK2MG40]https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=51&v=vJnJjK2MG40[/video]
NATO Secretary General on violations of Turkish airspace by Russian combat aircraft, 5 OCT 2015

158 views
Published on 5 Oct 2015

I just met with the Foreign Minister of Turkey Feridun Sinirlioglu to discuss the recent military actions of the Russian Federation in and around Syria. Including the unacceptable violations of Turkish airspace by Russian combat aircraft.


Err, are NATO aircraft meant to be over Syria?? What about Turkish aircraft?
Staggering hypocrisy.
 

Grant

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Turkish jets intercept Russian plane

Turkish F-16 fighter jets were scrambled after a Russian warplane violated Turkey's air space on Saturday, the foreign ministry said.

Russia said the incident was a "navigational error" and that it has "clarified" the matter to Ankara.
Turkish jets patrolling the border were also "harassed" by an unidentified plane on Sunday, Turkey said.

Russia has been carrying out air strikes in Syria in support of President Bashar al-Assad.
Turkey has called the Russian strikes a "grave mistake".

On Monday Russia said it had "continued performing pinpoint strikes" on IS targets in Syria, carrying out 25 sorties and hitting nine Islamic State (IS) targets.
Among those targets was a communications centre in Homs, and a command centre in Latakia, it said.
The Russian air campaign began on Wednesday, with Moscow saying it was targeting IS positions and those of other extremists.

But Turkey and other members of the US-led coalition in Syria say the principal target is in fact the Syrian opposition groups fighting President Assad.
They assert that Russia's intervention will further escalate the conflict and risks driving more recruits to IS.
Saturday's interception took place near Yayladagi in its southern Hatay region, Turkey says. The foreign ministry in Ankara said it had summoned the Russian ambassador to issue a "strong protest".

Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu told Turkish TV on Monday that the rules of engagement were clear, whoever violates its airspace.
"The Turkish Armed Forces are clearly instructed. Even if it is a flying bird, it will be intercepted," he said.
But he played down the possibility of a "Turkey-Russia crisis", saying that channels between the two countries remained open.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34441201
 

Grant

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you should have posted the article, it's hilarious - pravda-like with a sprinkle of north korea:
An anchor on state-run television threatened that Russia could "turn the U.S. into radioactive ashes" and showed a simulation of a Russian nuclear strike during his program on the U.S. response to Russia's interference in Ukraine.

Dmitry Kiselyov, who hosts a current affairs talk show on the Rossiya television network and heads a new Kremlin-backed news agency, accused U.S. President Barack Obama of supposedly dithering in talks with President Vladimir Putin, and suggested on his Sunday program that the U.S. leader was intimidated by his Kremlin opponent, who is "not an easy one."

"And Russia is the only country that could really turn the U.S. into radioactive ashes," Kiselyov said, against the backdrop of a mushroom cloud from a nuclear blast appearing on a huge screen behind him.

Kiselyov also suggested that threats of a nuclear strike were coming from the Kremlin.

"I do not know if this is a coincidence or what, but here was Obama calling Putin on Jan. 21 — probably, again trying to pressure somehow — and the very next day, on Jan. 22, the official media outlet of the Russian government ran an article that spelled out in simple terms how our system of nuclear response works," he said.

While Kiselyov's comment suggested that Obama's Jan. 21 call had to do with the Ukrainian crisis, an earlier statement from the White House said the U.S. leader spoke to Putin on that day to wish him a "safe and secure" Olympics in Sochi.

The Kremlin has unleashed a large-scale propaganda war over Moscow's takeover of Crimea and the peninsula's referendum on Sunday, in which more than 90 percent of voters cast supported seceding from Ukraine to Russia, according to preliminary results released by Crimea's pro-Russian administration.

The promotion by state-run television of the Kremlin's views has also helped Putin's approval ratings in the country to soar to 72 percent this month, a recent survey by the Levada pollster showed.

The number of respondents who said they would like to see Putin as Russia's president for a fourth term increased this month to 32 percent, from 26 percent in in April, 2013, while the number of people who said they would like the job to go to a "person who proposes a different solution to Russia's problems" declined from 41 percent to 31 percent over the same period.

The poll, conducted on March 7-10 among 1,603 people around Russia, gave a margin of error of 3.4 percentage points.
 

Grant

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Russia Can't Sell Its Syria Propaganda – Analysts

Almost as soon as the first reports of Russian air strikes in Syria hit the press, President Vladimir Putin accused the West of launching a new assault in an information war against Russia.

As the warplanes began to attack, Western journalists questioned Moscow's motives, offering evidence that Moscow was striking not only the Islamic State, but other armed groups in Syria fighting Russia's ally, President Bashar Assad. Reports also emerged of civilian deaths in Russian bombing raids.

But on Thursday, a day after the strikes began, Putin waved off what he called "information attacks."

"The first reports of civilian casualties appeared before our planes took off," Putin said, according to the TASS news agency.

His words were quickly picked up by Russian media.

"Russia Laughs Off 'Pseudo-Sensations' About 'Bombed' Civilians in Syria," read a headline on Sputnik International, an English-language news website run by the state-owned Rossiya Segodnya media company. Meanwhile, claims that Russia was targeting anyone but terrorists were refuted.

Russia has state-controlled media to push its message both inside and outside the country. But while there is no doubt that most Russians will readily agree with whatever Putin and these powerful media tell them, analysts said that to convince foreigners would be an uphill battle. The philosophy of Russian propaganda to the outside world has been to attack and undermine Western news organizations and Western leaders, not to deliver Russia's message.

One of the Kremlin's most powerful tools is RT, a state-funded television station that broadcasts in multiple languages and regions. But the channel "has been working according to its main model, which can be described as 'everybody lies and there is no truth,'" said Vasily Gatov, a Russian media analyst and visiting fellow at the USC Annenberg Center on Communication Leadership and Policy in California.

This technique "has not been useful, and is unlikely to be useful in the future," he told The Moscow Times in written comments.

The Kremlin does not have enough resources to convince Western society to believe its narrative, analysts said. Instead, the country's media will maximize efforts to persuade Russians that Putin's intervention in Syria is a necessary "sacred war" — the same scheme that was used during the Ukraine conflict last year.

Western Narrative
Soon after Russian warplanes began flying sorties on Wednesday, Western journalists began to report evidence of civilian deaths and attacks in territory not controlled by the Islamic State, or ISIS.

"The U.S. believes Russia has launched its first air strikes in Syria just hours after the country's parliament approved Vladimir Putin's request for military intervention. … [A]ctivists in Homs and Hama provinces have posted images and video online claiming to show Russian planes bombing groups of non-ISIS rebels who are fighting Bashar al-Assad's forces," British newspaper The Independent reported Wednesday.

"Russian air strike in Syria Targeted CIA-Backed Rebels, U.S. Officials Say," read a headline in The Wall Street Journal, an American newspaper, the same day. "One area hit was [a] location primarily held by rebels receiving funding, arms, [and] training from CIA and allies," said the article's subheading.

The Guardian wrote that "Syrian activists, civilians and rebels asserted that Russian strikes had targeted moderate forces who were opposed to the regime of president Bashar Assad, a Kremlin ally. The president of an opposition group said that at least 36 civilians, including women and children, were killed in strikes in Homs."

CNN, the U.S. news network, said in an article on its website, "An international coalition is urging Russia to immediately cease attacks on the Syrian opposition and civilians and focus instead on fighting the ISIS terrorist group."

Russian Narrative
The Russian propaganda machine responded. State television channels devoted hours of air time to Russian operations in Syria. Pro-Kremlin bloggers and Internet trolls on the payroll of the authorities immediately exposed numerous "lies" by foreign journalists. Even the Defense Ministry posted several videos of air strikes aiming at the right enemy.

Vesti, a state-run television channel, reported: "Several hours after the first Russian planes took off, media began to distribute statements about air strikes hitting civilians and saying the terrorists [hit] were in fact so-called Syrian opposition squads. Russian military officials called these reports 'pseudo-sensations' [that were] prepared in advance."

RT's website published an op-ed column by Neil Clark, a British journalist. "No sooner had Russian planes taken off to bomb ISIS terrorists and their associates in Syria, claims made by the West's anti-Russia lobby started to flood in — only to be repeated in much of the Western mainstream media," Clark wrote. The column concluded that an information war against Russia had been launched.

When asked whether RT had a strategy in this proclaimed information war, the channel's press service said, "RT correspondents are actually on the ground in Damascus and Latakia. Meanwhile, we see Western outlets quoting casualty numbers using videos of alleged Russian strikes while admitting that they cannot establish their veracity."

"Hysterical anti-Russian campaigning is disheartening, but no longer surprising," the press service said in written comments.

No Chance at Convincing the West
There is no coordinated effort to attack Russia in Western media, said Gatov.

Western news organizations may be suspicious of Moscow's actions in Syria, but they do not have "the coordination that Russian media have shown, 'working' the topic as if on command," according to Gatov.

"For the U.S. and some European media, the issue of Syria has been important for a long time, and they follow every event there much more thoroughly than Russian media," he said.

As for the Russian propaganda outlets trying to shift public opinion in the West, Gatov said their influence was too weak to change anything.

"RT's influence on the audience in the English-speaking world is not strong," he said. "Sputnik [International] also has its audience, but it is marginal in terms of its importance and political views."

Research into the global influence of Russia's foreign news services supports Gatov's claims. "According to an investigation carried out by [state-run news agency] RIA Novosti in 2013, the RT television channel … is significantly overstating its popularity and is not worth the money the state assigns to it from the budget (which is around 14 billion [rubles, $212 million] in 2015, according to RT)," Alexei Kovalyov, a former RIA Novosti employee, wrote in his blog on Medium.com, citing an article from the U.S. Daily Beast news website.

The Kremlin simply has no resources powerful enough to persuade the West, agreed Nikolai Svanidze, a prominent journalist and member of the presidential Human Rights Council.

"There's RT, but that's it. RT does quite a thorough job, but it's not enough to successfully advocate [Russia's point of view] in Western countries that have huge numbers of powerful media outlets," he told The Moscow Times in a telephone interview.

Russia's propaganda machine has always been aimed first and foremost at the Russian audience, Svanidze said, and the methods it is now using were designed and tested during the Ukrainian conflict.

"We are fighting for all the good in the world against the U.S., which represents all the bad in the world — that's how an average Russian sees the situation," he said.

But unlike in Ukraine, where Russia acted without support from any other nation, the Kremlin has allies and working relationships in Syria. News reports say Moscow has set up a joint information center with Syria, Iraq and Iran in Baghdad to help coordinate action against the Islamic State, and Russia has established a communications channel with the U.S. to prevent "incidents" between the two countries' warplanes in Syria, according to the BBC.

Dmitry Oreshkin, an independent political analyst, said the Kremlin was playing two sides — trying to decrease international tension and somehow solve the situation quietly by showing the will to collaborate with other governments, but at the same time escalating mass hysteria about the conflict inside Russia.

"It is hard to explain," Oreshkin told The Moscow Times in a phone interview. "The reason is either an ideological division inside the elite, or just a complex game, in which they try to look law abiding and nice to the West, while inside the country cultivating a more brutal image."
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/...ll-its-syria-propaganda--analysts/536932.html
 
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