The Syrian Conflict Thread

[AntiGanda]

whY uSe diffERENT fonT SIzes anD COLOurs WHEN QUOTING orIGINAL artiCLES ?

look purdy
lets all do it now

So you don't miss a thing (as you usually do - woosh).

 

[AntiGanda]

Haha Russians will soon be going on vacation in Syria, well if it means less of their ground forces in Ukraine then im fine by that.

Why do you not like these volunteers in Ukraine, but it's OK in Syria?

 

[Grant]

So you don't miss a thing (as you usually do - woosh).

oh yea, missing things . .
besides a clone of the previously banned skeptic, are you also a killerdoob clone - he enjoyed embellishing original arguments in a futile attempt to bolster is arguments.

 

[AntiGanda]

oh yea, missing things . .
besides a clone of the previously banned skeptic, are you also a killerdoob clone - he enjoyed embellishing original arguments in a futile attempt to bolster is arguments.

I'll be whoever you want me to be, big boy ;-)

 

[Dave]

Why do you not like these volunteers in Ukraine, but it's OK in Syria?

You don't see the difference between the government of Syria requesting Russian help in Syria and the government of Ukraine absolutely forbidding any Russian intervention in Ukraine?

 

[Xarog]

But that's what I said - first we will see volunteers

No one's disputing the possibility of volunteers though. The point is that those volunteers are not part of the Russian military. If someone kills them, it's no skin off Russia's nose. That's very very different to landing regular troops in Syria and attempting to control the entire country a la Afghanistan, which was what all your crowing was in aid of championing.

 

[Xarog]

You don't see the difference between the government of Syria requesting Russian help in Syria and the government of Ukraine absolutely forbidding any Russian intervention in Ukraine?

Well, to be fair the new regime was pretty much installed by coup and the notion that it's democratic is dubious at best.

 

[LazyLion]

Where's the pics?

Sorry, forgot the link.
http://i100.independent.co.uk/artic...uctive-syrias-civil-war-has-been--Zye0gWP3mDg

 

[SweetFennyAdams]

Breaking News: Chinese Warplanes Join Russian Airstrikes in Syria!

5 Oct 15

Russia’s military intervention in Syria has expanded radically in two directions. Military and intelligence sources report that China sent word to Moscow Friday, Oct. 2, that J-15 fighter bombers would shortly join the Russian air campaign that was launched Wednesday, Sept. 30. Baghdad has offered Moscow an air base for targeting the Islamic State now occupying large swathes of Iraqi territory. Russia’s military intervention in Syria has five additional participants: China, Iran, Iraq, Syria and Hezballah.

The J-15 warplanes will take off from the Chinese Liaoning-CV-16 aircraft carrier, which reached Syrian shores on Sept. 26.
This will be a landmark event for Beijing: its first military operation in the Middle East as well the carrier’s first taste of action in conditions of real combat.



This war is going to escalate to boiling point between East and West.
Could this be the first stages on an end game, or will the US and EU scurry off with their tails between their legs?

 

[AntiGanda]

You don't see the difference between the government of Syria requesting Russian help in Syria and the government of Ukraine absolutely forbidding any Russian intervention in Ukraine?

You mean like Syria forbidding US aircraft bombing in their territory?

I'm not sure what your question is, but we have several scenarios.

 

[Dave]

Well, to be fair the new regime was pretty much installed by coup and the notion that it's democratic is dubious at best.

No, there was an internationally recognised election in Ukraine, even Russia has recognised the government.

MOSCOW — Russia will recognize the results of Ukraine's parliamentary election, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov was quoted as saying Monday by RIA Novosti news agency.

"Taking everything into account, this election took place, though not on all of Ukraine's territory," Lavrov was quoted as saying.

"I think we will recognize this election because it is very important for us that Ukraine will finally have authorities that do not fight one another, do not drag Ukraine to the West or to the East, but that will deal with the real problems facing the country."

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/510111.html


(this is quite off topic for a thread on Syria).

You mean like Syria forbidding US aircraft bombing in their territory?

I'm not sure what your question is, but we have several scenarios.

Who mentioned the US? I hadn't even mentioned them.

I was answering your post where you are trying to equate Russia in Syria legally with Russia in Ukraine illegally.

 

[Xarog]

No, there was an internationally recognised election in Ukraine, even Russia has recognised the government.

Internationally recognised, but in reality much of the east never got to cast a vote.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/510111.html


(this is quite off topic for a thread on Syria).

Yes, I realise that Russia did this, but I think that they had reasons to do so on the international diplomacy front. Frankly if there had been a coup without an election to follow it up and even if Russia was still opposed to them and supporting the rebels, I think Russia would recognise the "legitimacy" of the regime to speak for the territory it controlled. Putin is extremely pragmatic on this front. Without recognition, he would have no basis to enter into dialogue with Poroshenko, and the benefits of that dialogue outweigh any principled stance.

I don't think that recognition equates to respect in any real sense. The point is still that the United States set up elections and their guy (Poroshenko) ended up winning, with Victoria Nuland's views with who should make up the government somehow magically manifesting into exactly how things actually played out. It would be very surprising if Moscow did not regard the Ukrainian regime as having been installed by coup.

 

[AntiGanda]

No, there was an internationally recognised election in Ukraine, even Russia has recognised the government.



http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/510111.html


(this is quite off topic for a thread on Syria).



Who mentioned the US? I hadn't even mentioned them.

I was answering your post where you are trying to equate Russia in Syria legally with Russia in Ukraine illegally.

So you can stage a coup, remove the president, then make yourself legitimate after elections??


Answer this: Is the US in Syria by invitation or are they violating their airspace?

 

[Grant]

[video=youtube;O1geNDKY7EQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1geNDKY7EQ[/video]

 

[biometrics]

Breaking News: Chinese Warplanes Join Russian Airstrikes in Syria!

5 Oct 15

Russia’s military intervention in Syria has expanded radically in two directions. Military and intelligence sources report that China sent word to Moscow Friday, Oct. 2, that J-15 fighter bombers would shortly join the Russian air campaign that was launched Wednesday, Sept. 30. Baghdad has offered Moscow an air base for targeting the Islamic State now occupying large swathes of Iraqi territory. Russia’s military intervention in Syria has five additional participants: China, Iran, Iraq, Syria and Hezballah.

The J-15 warplanes will take off from the Chinese Liaoning-CV-16 aircraft carrier, which reached Syrian shores on Sept. 26.
This will be a landmark event for Beijing: its first military operation in the Middle East as well the carrier’s first taste of action in conditions of real combat.

View attachment 303004

This war is going to escalate to boiling point between East and West.
Could this be the first stages on an end game, or will the US and EU scurry off with their tails between their legs?

End of US dominance. That's not a bad thing.

 

[Dave]

Internationally recognised, but in reality much of the east never got to cast a vote.

A small percentage of voters in the east abstained or were forced not to vote (iirc it is only 10-15% of Ukraine).

A free and fair election was held in the rest of the country and resulted in a universally recognised government.

Answer this: Is the US in Syria by invitation or are they violating their airspace?

No, I'm my opinion the US has no right to be in Syrian airspace without the consent of the current Syrian government (which was recognised as legitimate by the world pre-Arab Spring) or a specific UN resolution.

 

[Xarog]

A small percentage of voters in the east abstained or were forced not to vote (iirc it is only 10-15% of Ukraine).

A free and fair election was held in the rest of the country and resulted in a universally recognised government.

Sources?

 

[Dave]

Sources?

It's simple, Ukraine has around 42.5 million residents of which 34.25 million are over 18 , at the time of the Donbass region "referendum" (Luhansk and Donetsk) had 3.2 million registered voters.

3.2 million out of 34.25 million is actually around 9%.

Donbass voter numbers: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donbass_status_referendums,_2014
Ukraine population and voter numbers: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Ukraine

 

[Xarog]

It's simple, Ukraine has around 42.5 million residents of which 34.25 million are over 18 , at the time of the Donbass region "referendum" (Luhansk and Donetsk) had 3.2 million registered voters.

3.2 million out of 34.25 million is actually around 9%.

Donbass voter numbers: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donbass_status_referendums,_2014
Ukraine population and voter numbers: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Ukraine

Only proving the point further. Poroshenko only managed 9 million votes in total. Had those areas participated in the national elections, and had the people who weren't backing Poroshenko actually under the impression that there was a point to voting (2nd place only managed 2 million votes ffs).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_presidential_election,_2014

Those numbers are not indicative of a popular vote. That's the kind of turnout you'd expect for a coup wallpapered with legitimacy.

 

[Space_Chief]

It's interesting also with the change to the mandate of the JSDF. Wonder if they'll have more foreign deployment.

Stratfor on Russian Deployment in Syria:
https://www.stratfor.com/geopolitical-diary/reasoning-behind-russias-airstrikes-syria