The Syrian Conflict Thread

[Unhappy438]

Not blindly, but even if we make it 10%, or 5%; it's the same concept.

Its not the same concept, we wont know how successful Russian raids have been until another week or so. If the Syrian army starts making huge gains then we could safely start putting figures on things. There is also the open question about how long the Russian air force can keep these attacks up for. We haven't seen them in action for a while now so it will be interesting to see their sustainability.

 

[Mach III]

True, it was a technical point.

It's just that the wingnut narrative is all about the US 'creating' ISIS, which simply isn't true. It's much more accurate to say the stupid war created a power vacuum which the group exploited.

I agree with this being the most likely case. Also, I've used the words 'possibly' created ISIS, because the purported negligence in such a manner is not the easiest thing to believe for me.

and there are motives to benefit the USA...

The bottom line is, no USA involvement in the middle east - no ISIS... true?

Its not the same concept, we wont know how successful Russian raids have been until another week or so. If the Syrian army starts making huge gains then we could safely start putting figures on things. There is also the open question about how long the Russian air force can keep these attacks up for. We haven't seen them in action for a while now so it will be interesting to see their sustainability.

Well let's take a friendly bet; for 'I told you so' purposes...

I think Russia is going to sustain, and intensify attacks.

 

[snoopdoggydog]

NATO chief says prepared to send troops to defend Turkey

NATO said it was prepared to send troops to Turkey to defend its ally after violations of Turkish airspace by Russian jets bombing Syria and Britain scolded Moscow for escalating a civil war that has already killed 250,000 people.

Officials at the U.S.-led alliance are still smarting from Russia's weekend incursions into Turkey's airspace near northern Syria and NATO defense ministers are meeting in Brussels with the agenda likely to be dominated by the Syria crisis.

"NATO is ready and able to defend all allies, including Turkey against any threats," NATO's Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg told reporters as he arrived for the meeting.

"NATO has already responded by increasing our capacity, our ability, our preparedness to deploy forces including to the south, including in Turkey," he said, noting that Russia's air and cruise missile strikes were "reasons for concern".

As Russian and U.S. planes fly combat missions over the same country for the first time since World War Two, NATO is eager to avoid any international escalation of the Syrian conflict that has unexpectedly turned the alliance's attention away from Ukraine following Russia's annexation of Crimea last year.

The incursions of two Russian fighters in Turkish airspace on Saturday and Sunday has brought the Syria conflict right up to NATO's borders, testing the alliance's ability to deter a newly assertive Russia without seeking direct confrontation.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/08/us-mideast-crisis-syria-nato-idUSKCN0S20HJ20151008

 

[snoopdoggydog]

Why don't they just put more sanctions on Russia?

 

[Hamish McPanji]

.

 

[Mach III]

What do you guys think of this as Russia's motive for Syria:

http://russia-insider.com/en/putins...explained-top-russian-politician-video/ri8001

I don't see USA ever going in depth on their decisions... Always emotional hysteria, followed by "Murica", "courage", "freedom".

 

[OrbitalDawn]

I agree with this being the most likely case. Also, I've used the words 'possibly' created ISIS, because the purported negligence in such a manner is not the easiest thing to believe for me.

and there are motives to benefit the USA...

The bottom line is, no USA involvement in the middle east - no ISIS... true?

ISIS in their current form? Who knows. But their ideology is by no means a new one, and the chaos in Syria could easily have seen another group take on a similar role. There are literally thousands such groups spread out across the Middle East.

And Hussein's regime would likely have fallen anyway, creating the same power vacuum. Despotic regimes tend to fall over as time goes on.

 

[Mach III]

Someone posted this article on myBB...
http://news.yahoo.com/popularity-putin-shiite-sky-high-iraq-093642221.html

But just look at the sheer popularity Putin has in the comments! Fascinating...

 

[AntiGanda]

What do you guys think of this as Russia's motive for Syria:

http://russia-insider.com/en/putins...explained-top-russian-politician-video/ri8001

I don't see USA ever going in depth on their decisions... Always emotional hysteria, followed by "Murica", "courage", "freedom".

Your link is about Ukraine.

Putin mentions a motive in the 60 minutes interview. Thousands of Russians in Syria on the other side who may return to hurt Moscow.

 

[Unhappy438]

Well let's take a friendly bet; for 'I told you so' purposes...

I think Russia is going to sustain, and intensify attacks.

Im currently sitting in the unknown category, so im not really sure either way. I will make up my mind over the next week regarding effectiveness of their air campaign, by then we should start seeing results on the ground. I would be surprised if they can keep the current levels up for much more than 2 - 3 months though.

 

[Mach III]

Your link is about Ukraine.

Putin mentions a motive in the 60 minutes interview. Thousands of Russians in Syria on the other side who may return to hurt Moscow.

Ukraine is definitely connected.

Russia splitting off the G8 and picking up sanctions along the way; and now they undermining the US again.

A response to a proposed dividing and conquering US.

Im currently sitting in the unknown category, so im not really sure either way. I will make up my mind over the next week regarding effectiveness of their air campaign, by then we should start seeing results on the ground. I would be surprised if they can keep the current levels up for much more than 2 - 3 months though.

Fair enough, if the 40% is true, should all be over in a week and a half. Just kidding...

Okay, I'm all war'red / war'n out...

Till the next big event.

 

[AntiGanda]

Ukraine is definitely connected.

Russia splitting off the G8 and picking up sanctions along the way; and now they undermining the US again.

A response to a proposed dividing and conquering US.



Fair enough, if the 40% is true, should all be over in a week and a half. Just kidding...

Okay, I'm all war'red / war'n out...

Till the next big event.

Much like the 60mins interviewer's probing, there is not necessarily an ulterior motive for what they do.

 

[Seriously]

lets start of with defining who "we" is ?

Him and his ulterior in his bathroom mirror only! May he think of me everytime he sees himself.

 

[AntiGanda]

Him and his ulterior in his bathroom mirror only! May he think of me everytime he sees himself.

I'm still waiting for the references to the 'facts' he spouted.

 

[TriGuN]

Much like the 60mins interviewer's probing, there is not necessarily an ulterior motive for what they do.

This war isn't primarily about Syria, Assad, ISIS, having a foothold in the M/E, protecting investments or pissing off America..
If it was they would have intervened long before now.

I suspect this war is primarily about undermining the EU by controlling a perpetual flow of migrants that the EU simply refuses to stop. That will continue to sow division among EU members. Countries will have referendums, and they will leave the EU. Russia will regain influence over Eastern Europe, and a fractured Europe will have little leverage at the bargaining table for things like energy. The EU will be severely weakened, if it survives at all. That's why the intervention comes right after the crises. The Russian government liked the results of that crises, and they want more of that.

Even before Syria was mostly destroyed it was probably not worth Russia fighting for, it certainly isn't now, but Europe is.

At least, that is part of the plan of the Russian government, whether it is their main incentive for intervention or not.

 

[AntiGanda]

This war isn't primarily about Syria, Assad, ISIS, having a foothold in the M/E, protecting investments or pissing off America..
If it was they would have intervened long before now.

I suspect this war is primarily about undermining the EU by controlling a perpetual flow of migrants that the EU simply refuses to stop. That will continue to sow division among EU members. Countries will have referendums, and they will leave the EU. Russia will regain influence over Eastern Europe, and a fractured Europe will have little leverage at the bargaining table for things like energy. The EU will be severely weakened, if it survives at all. That's why the intervention comes right after the crises. The Russian government liked the results of that crises, and they want more of that.

Even before Syria was mostly destroyed it was probably not worth Russia fighting for, it certainly isn't now, but Europe is.

At least, that is part of the plan of the Russian government, whether it is their main incentive for intervention or not.

Did you watch the interview? All this was discussed.

I don't imagine Russia will be concerned about the migrants since their border control is 100% better.

 

[Grant]

I'm still waiting for the references to the 'facts' he spouted.

dont worry about it, we know how humiliating and embarrassing any admission would be for you.



but going back, your kremlin tag-team mate conveniently totally left out the syrian population - as for sprouting - yours is legendary

 

[TriGuN]

I don't imagine Russia will be concerned about the migrants since their border control is 100% better.

They are certainly not concerned about migrants entering Europe, they want to flood Europe with more migrants.
They don't want to control the flow to stem it, they want to control the flow to increase it.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Syria crisis: Russian missiles 'fell on Iran'

Four Russian cruise missiles fired at Syria from the Caspian Sea landed in Iran, unnamed US officials say.
It was unclear whether the missiles caused any damage, they said.

Russia's defence ministry has declined to comment. On Wednesday, Russia said it had launched 26 cruise missiles at targets in north and north-west Syria.

The news came as Nato renewed assurances to defend its allies in view of the "escalation of Russian military activities" in Syria.
Nato is boosting its response forces to be able to deploy troops speedily.

Moscow denies Western accusations that it has mainly targeted opponents of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, insisting its strikes have hit the infrastructure of the so-called Islamic State (IS) and other militant groups.

 

[snoopdoggydog]

Four Russian cruise missiles aimed at Syria crashed in Iran: U.S. officials

Four Russian cruise missiles fired at Syria from a Russian ship in the Caspian Sea on Wednesday crashed in Iran, U.S. officials said on Thursday.

A U.S. government source said Russia had been flying cruise missiles over Iran into Syria in attacks on rebels fighting Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

The Russian Defense Ministry declined to comment.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/08/us-mideast-crisis-syria-usa-idUSKCN0S22EG20151008