AfricanTech
Honorary Master
Too lazy to look now but I think that chemicals are banned by some international convention
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The Syrian Conflict Thread
Too lazy to look now but I think that chemicals are banned by some international convention
AfricanTech
Honorary Master
Here we are:
The 1925 Geneva Protocol bars the use of chemical weapons in war.
Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC) barring nations from possessing chemical arms came into force in 1997.
The 1925 Geneva Protocol bars the use of chemical weapons in war.
Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC) barring nations from possessing chemical arms came into force in 1997.
Grant
Honorary Master
Quite possibly, but again, this is where i have difficulty understanding the logic.
Chemicals are banned but car bombs (and other devices) are permitted.
Seriously
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Syria refused to sign that. One of the very few nations that did not. Now we know why.
daveza
Honorary Master
What is the problem with waiting for the UN inspection report ?
Seriously
Honorary Master
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Like all the UN inspection reports before, there are first a few delays, then pressure then "inspections" after they had time to clean up and make sure there are lack of evidence. Even the "witnesses" will be preselected. I still would like to know exactly which areas will be "inspected"
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daveza
Honorary Master
The last time we didn't wait for the inspectors....
Now they want to do it again ?
Now they want to do it again ?
daveza
Honorary Master
We - us - USA
OrbitalDawn
Ulysses Everett McGill
Yeah, this whole harping on about chemical weapons is silly. Everyone's making such a huge deal about Assad's regime crossing some line. What were the 100 000 deaths before that?! Just peachy? You're allowed to butcher your own people as long as you use conventional weapons.
I have not read through the entire thread but I wonder why the USA is making such a fuss about a few hundred (or few thousand) casualties when the American use of Agent Orange in Vietnam affected several million civilians whose lives are still blighted today.
More recently, the USA provided the means for Saddam Hussein to use similar weapons against his own citizens as well as against the Iranians.
Polymathic
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Russia says it won’t be drawn into war over Syria
Lets face it the only reason Russia is showing interested in Syria is because Assad is buying his weapons from them. Right now Putin must be licking his lips, Assad might be getting desperate and you could bet that Putin will milk for every last cent before he is deposed
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...gainst-Syria-attack-without-U-N-approval.html
Lets face it the only reason Russia is showing interested in Syria is because Assad is buying his weapons from them. Right now Putin must be licking his lips, Assad might be getting desperate and you could bet that Putin will milk for every last cent before he is deposed
killadoob
Honorary Master
Alan it is iran who will get involved not russia but should iran choose to get involved russia may get involed because iran is of big interest to russia and china, they want a pro russian chinese government in power. They bypass the sanctions imposed on iran along with india.
Alan just watch that video from 29 minutes until about 33 minutes please. Remember this will become a regional war once syria falls. Lebanon, israel, iraq, jordan, turkey because al queda answer to no one. They hate everyone.
Alan just watch that video from 29 minutes until about 33 minutes please. Remember this will become a regional war once syria falls. Lebanon, israel, iraq, jordan, turkey because al queda answer to no one. They hate everyone.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
British lawmakers set to vote on Syria Response
British lawmakers were on Thursday set to vote on Britain's response to chemical weapons attacks in Syria -- but any military action will require a second parliamentary vote.
Under growing pressure from MPs who feared Britain was rushing to war, the government conceded late Wednesday that there should be no British military strike until UN inspectors report back on the gas attacks believed to have killed hundreds near Damascus last week.
"Before any direct British involvement in such action a further vote of the House of Commons will take place," said the government's motion, which is set to go to a vote in parliament late Thursday.
British lawmakers will be asked to back "a strong humanitarian response" that "may, if necessary, require military action that is legal, proportionate and focused on savings lives by preventing and deterring further use of Syria's chemical weapons".
The opposition Labour party had threatened to vote against the motion unless lawmakers were promised a second vote on the basis of the UN evidence -- which had left Prime Minister David Cameron facing possible defeat in his bid for targeted strikes against the Syrian regime.
The decision to hold a second vote, expected next week after UN experts announce their findings, was widely seen in Britain as a climbdown by the government.
"Back from the brink: Cameron forced to retreat over Syria," said The Independent's front page on Thursday, while the Daily Mail's headline read: "Cameron rocked by MPs' mutiny on Syria air strike".
Along with the United States and France, the British government is pushing for targeted military strikes against the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, which they claim is responsible for last week's horrific poison gas attacks.
The Syrian government strongly denies this and blames opposition fighters for the attacks.
Cameron will on Thursday try to convince lawmakers -- who have been recalled from their summer break for the marathon debate -- that targeted strikes would punish the Assad regime for its alleged use of chemical weapons and deter any further attacks.
He will also insist that any strikes would not drag Britain into a wider conflict.
Haunted by their experience of the Iraq war, a growing number of MPs --including some within Cameron's own Conservative party -- are reluctant to back British military involvement in Syria.
In 2003, parliament gave then prime minister Tony Blair a mandate to join the US-led offensive in Iraq on the basis of allegations that dictator Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.
The weapons never materialised and Britain became embroiled in the war for years.
Cameron's spokeswoman said the prime minister was "acutely aware of the deep concerns in the country caused by what happened over Iraq".
"That's why we are committed to taking action to deal with this war crime -- but taking action in the right way, proceeding on a consensual basis," she said.
Cameron and German Chancellor Angela Merkel late Wednesday again discussed the Syria crisis by telephone and "agreed that the massive use of toxic gas against Syrian civilians has been sufficiently proven" and that the Syrian regime must not "go unpunished", her spokesman said.
Merkel also hailed British moves to seek UN backing for measures to protect Syrians.
Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg, whose Liberal Democrats are the junior coalition partners of Cameron's Conservatives, sent an email to his MPs late Wednesday headlined: "This is not Iraq."
"This is not about regime change," Clegg wrote, urging Lib Dems to back the motion.
"This is about upholding international and humanitarian law and deterring the use of chemical weapons to protect innocent people from being murdered in future by brutal dictators."
The parliamentary motion says "every effort" should be made to secure approval from the United Nations Security Council before any military action goes ahead.
But expectations of a Western military assault are rising after the United States ruled out any chance of securing a UN resolution, blaming Russian "intransigence".
Russia and China, both permanent members of the Security Council, fiercely oppose a strike against Assad.
Britain had sought backing from the council on Wednesday, submitting a draft resolution calling for action to protect Syrian civilians.
Foreign Secretary William Hague said the international community had a responsibility to act even if the Security Council could not agree.
"I hope the message will go out loud and clear from Britain -- that the use of chemical weapons in the 21st century cannot be tolerated," Hague said.
"That is something which people across all political parties should be able to support."
Source : Sapa-AFP /kn
Date : 29 Aug 2013 03:40
British lawmakers were on Thursday set to vote on Britain's response to chemical weapons attacks in Syria -- but any military action will require a second parliamentary vote.
Under growing pressure from MPs who feared Britain was rushing to war, the government conceded late Wednesday that there should be no British military strike until UN inspectors report back on the gas attacks believed to have killed hundreds near Damascus last week.
"Before any direct British involvement in such action a further vote of the House of Commons will take place," said the government's motion, which is set to go to a vote in parliament late Thursday.
British lawmakers will be asked to back "a strong humanitarian response" that "may, if necessary, require military action that is legal, proportionate and focused on savings lives by preventing and deterring further use of Syria's chemical weapons".
The opposition Labour party had threatened to vote against the motion unless lawmakers were promised a second vote on the basis of the UN evidence -- which had left Prime Minister David Cameron facing possible defeat in his bid for targeted strikes against the Syrian regime.
The decision to hold a second vote, expected next week after UN experts announce their findings, was widely seen in Britain as a climbdown by the government.
"Back from the brink: Cameron forced to retreat over Syria," said The Independent's front page on Thursday, while the Daily Mail's headline read: "Cameron rocked by MPs' mutiny on Syria air strike".
Along with the United States and France, the British government is pushing for targeted military strikes against the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, which they claim is responsible for last week's horrific poison gas attacks.
The Syrian government strongly denies this and blames opposition fighters for the attacks.
Cameron will on Thursday try to convince lawmakers -- who have been recalled from their summer break for the marathon debate -- that targeted strikes would punish the Assad regime for its alleged use of chemical weapons and deter any further attacks.
He will also insist that any strikes would not drag Britain into a wider conflict.
Haunted by their experience of the Iraq war, a growing number of MPs --including some within Cameron's own Conservative party -- are reluctant to back British military involvement in Syria.
In 2003, parliament gave then prime minister Tony Blair a mandate to join the US-led offensive in Iraq on the basis of allegations that dictator Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.
The weapons never materialised and Britain became embroiled in the war for years.
Cameron's spokeswoman said the prime minister was "acutely aware of the deep concerns in the country caused by what happened over Iraq".
"That's why we are committed to taking action to deal with this war crime -- but taking action in the right way, proceeding on a consensual basis," she said.
Cameron and German Chancellor Angela Merkel late Wednesday again discussed the Syria crisis by telephone and "agreed that the massive use of toxic gas against Syrian civilians has been sufficiently proven" and that the Syrian regime must not "go unpunished", her spokesman said.
Merkel also hailed British moves to seek UN backing for measures to protect Syrians.
Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg, whose Liberal Democrats are the junior coalition partners of Cameron's Conservatives, sent an email to his MPs late Wednesday headlined: "This is not Iraq."
"This is not about regime change," Clegg wrote, urging Lib Dems to back the motion.
"This is about upholding international and humanitarian law and deterring the use of chemical weapons to protect innocent people from being murdered in future by brutal dictators."
The parliamentary motion says "every effort" should be made to secure approval from the United Nations Security Council before any military action goes ahead.
But expectations of a Western military assault are rising after the United States ruled out any chance of securing a UN resolution, blaming Russian "intransigence".
Russia and China, both permanent members of the Security Council, fiercely oppose a strike against Assad.
Britain had sought backing from the council on Wednesday, submitting a draft resolution calling for action to protect Syrian civilians.
Foreign Secretary William Hague said the international community had a responsibility to act even if the Security Council could not agree.
"I hope the message will go out loud and clear from Britain -- that the use of chemical weapons in the 21st century cannot be tolerated," Hague said.
"That is something which people across all political parties should be able to support."
Source : Sapa-AFP /kn
Date : 29 Aug 2013 03:40
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
Obama not ready yet to order Syria Strike, but gives up on UN
President Barack Obama said Wednesday he had not yet signed off on a plan to strike Syria, but action appeared likely after Washington abandoned the hunt for a last-minute UN mandate.
Political uproar in London, meanwhile, cast doubt on whether Britain will join American military action to punish President Bashar al-Assad's regime for a chemical weapons attack, should the response take place before next week.
And a team of UN inspectors pressed on with its hazardous work in Damascus, testing victims of the alleged poison gas attack, which killed hundreds of people last week and threatens to draw reluctant Western states into a vicious civil war.
Obama, who has warned that the use of chemical weapons in Syria would cross a US "red line," said Washington had definitively concluded that the Assad regime was to blame for last week's attack.
A senior White House official told AFP that the administration will brief senior US lawmakers on Thursday about classified intelligence about the chemical attack.
Asked how close he was to ordering a US strike, expected to start with cruise missile raids, Obama told PBS NewsHour: "I have not made a decision."
But he warned that US action would be designed to send a "shot across the bow" to convince Syria it had "better not do it again."
He admitted that the limited strikes envisioned by the White House would not stop the killing of civilians in Syria but said he had decided that getting involved in a civil war that has already killed 100,000 people would not help the situation.
The US leader, who wants to seal a legacy of ending foreign wars, not getting into new ones, argued that it was vital to send a clear message not just to Syria, but around the world.
"We do have to make sure that when countries break international norms on weapons like chemical weapons that could threaten us, that they are held accountable."
Earlier, Washington bluntly signaled that a UN Security Council resolution proposed by Britain that could have given a legal basis for an assault was going nowhere, owing to Russian opposition.
"We see no avenue forward, given continued Russian opposition to any meaningful Council action on Syria," State Department deputy spokeswoman Marie Harf said.
"We cannot be held up in responding by Russia's continued intransigence at the United Nations, and quite frankly the situation is so serious that it demands a response," Harf said.
British Prime Minister David Cameron was meanwhile slowed by a parliamentary revolt and was forced to pledge he would not order military action until the report by UN inspectors has been published.
Cameron plans to put his case to lawmakers on Thursday, but with a majority in doubt on the issue a second vote, possibly early next week, will now have to take place before British forces can join the fray.
White House officials would not immediately say whether Washington would wait for Britain before launching any military action.
Syria's nervous neighbors meanwhile stepped up their preparations for conflict as a strike appeared imminent.
Israel authorized a partial call-up of army reservists, Turkey said its forces were on heightened "vigilance," and New York oil hit the highest level -- $112.24 per barrel -- for more than two years.
"The region is like a gunpowder depot," Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei warned in a condemnation of the West's reported military plans.
The United Nations says its inspection team needs two more days to finish their work. But it has given no deadline for reporting on whether chemical weapons have been used.
The inspectors went to the Ghouta district east of Damascus on Wednesday to collect blood, urine and hair samples from victims of the August 21 attack.
The United States, Britain and France blame Assad's forces for the attack using chemical weapons, which are banned under an international convention.
The Syrian government has blamed the attack on "terrorist" rebels. Its UN ambassador, Bashar Jaafari, said Wednesday that Syrian soldiers had been gassed in three new incidents near Damascus since last week.
Russia, which has vetoed three UN Security Council resolutions aiming to increase pressure on Assad, has maintained its support for his government.
But it also evacuated more than 100 people from the Syrian city of Latakia on Wednesday.
Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told Britain's Foreign Secretary William Hague that the international community must wait for the UN inquiry to be completed before taking any further steps, the Russian Foreign Ministry said.
In another conversation with UN Syria envoy Lakhdar Brahimi, Lavrov said Western military strikes against Assad would destabilize the entire Middle East.
The Syrian government has meanwhile defiantly shrugged off the growing military threat.
Prime Minister Wael al-Halki accused the West of inventing excuses to intervene and warned that the country would become the "graveyard of the invaders."
"Western countries, starting with the United States, are inventing fake scenarios and fictitious alibis to intervene militarily in Syria," he was quoted as saying by state television.
UN leader Ban Ki-moon called on the international powers to head off conflict. He said more time must be given to the inspectors and made a new plea for the Security Council to overcome its divisions on Syria.
"Syria is the biggest challenge of war and peace in the world today. The body entrusted with maintaining international peace and security cannot be missing in action," he said.
"The Council must at last find the unity to act. It must use its authority for peace," Ban said.
Ban has been a frequent critic of Assad over the conflict, which erupted in March 2011 with anti-regime protests but soon escalated into a full-scale uprising in which more than 100,000 people have died, according to UN figures.
Source : Sapa-AFP /kn
Date : 29 Aug 2013 04:05
President Barack Obama said Wednesday he had not yet signed off on a plan to strike Syria, but action appeared likely after Washington abandoned the hunt for a last-minute UN mandate.
Political uproar in London, meanwhile, cast doubt on whether Britain will join American military action to punish President Bashar al-Assad's regime for a chemical weapons attack, should the response take place before next week.
And a team of UN inspectors pressed on with its hazardous work in Damascus, testing victims of the alleged poison gas attack, which killed hundreds of people last week and threatens to draw reluctant Western states into a vicious civil war.
Obama, who has warned that the use of chemical weapons in Syria would cross a US "red line," said Washington had definitively concluded that the Assad regime was to blame for last week's attack.
A senior White House official told AFP that the administration will brief senior US lawmakers on Thursday about classified intelligence about the chemical attack.
Asked how close he was to ordering a US strike, expected to start with cruise missile raids, Obama told PBS NewsHour: "I have not made a decision."
But he warned that US action would be designed to send a "shot across the bow" to convince Syria it had "better not do it again."
He admitted that the limited strikes envisioned by the White House would not stop the killing of civilians in Syria but said he had decided that getting involved in a civil war that has already killed 100,000 people would not help the situation.
The US leader, who wants to seal a legacy of ending foreign wars, not getting into new ones, argued that it was vital to send a clear message not just to Syria, but around the world.
"We do have to make sure that when countries break international norms on weapons like chemical weapons that could threaten us, that they are held accountable."
Earlier, Washington bluntly signaled that a UN Security Council resolution proposed by Britain that could have given a legal basis for an assault was going nowhere, owing to Russian opposition.
"We see no avenue forward, given continued Russian opposition to any meaningful Council action on Syria," State Department deputy spokeswoman Marie Harf said.
"We cannot be held up in responding by Russia's continued intransigence at the United Nations, and quite frankly the situation is so serious that it demands a response," Harf said.
British Prime Minister David Cameron was meanwhile slowed by a parliamentary revolt and was forced to pledge he would not order military action until the report by UN inspectors has been published.
Cameron plans to put his case to lawmakers on Thursday, but with a majority in doubt on the issue a second vote, possibly early next week, will now have to take place before British forces can join the fray.
White House officials would not immediately say whether Washington would wait for Britain before launching any military action.
Syria's nervous neighbors meanwhile stepped up their preparations for conflict as a strike appeared imminent.
Israel authorized a partial call-up of army reservists, Turkey said its forces were on heightened "vigilance," and New York oil hit the highest level -- $112.24 per barrel -- for more than two years.
"The region is like a gunpowder depot," Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei warned in a condemnation of the West's reported military plans.
The United Nations says its inspection team needs two more days to finish their work. But it has given no deadline for reporting on whether chemical weapons have been used.
The inspectors went to the Ghouta district east of Damascus on Wednesday to collect blood, urine and hair samples from victims of the August 21 attack.
The United States, Britain and France blame Assad's forces for the attack using chemical weapons, which are banned under an international convention.
The Syrian government has blamed the attack on "terrorist" rebels. Its UN ambassador, Bashar Jaafari, said Wednesday that Syrian soldiers had been gassed in three new incidents near Damascus since last week.
Russia, which has vetoed three UN Security Council resolutions aiming to increase pressure on Assad, has maintained its support for his government.
But it also evacuated more than 100 people from the Syrian city of Latakia on Wednesday.
Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told Britain's Foreign Secretary William Hague that the international community must wait for the UN inquiry to be completed before taking any further steps, the Russian Foreign Ministry said.
In another conversation with UN Syria envoy Lakhdar Brahimi, Lavrov said Western military strikes against Assad would destabilize the entire Middle East.
The Syrian government has meanwhile defiantly shrugged off the growing military threat.
Prime Minister Wael al-Halki accused the West of inventing excuses to intervene and warned that the country would become the "graveyard of the invaders."
"Western countries, starting with the United States, are inventing fake scenarios and fictitious alibis to intervene militarily in Syria," he was quoted as saying by state television.
UN leader Ban Ki-moon called on the international powers to head off conflict. He said more time must be given to the inspectors and made a new plea for the Security Council to overcome its divisions on Syria.
"Syria is the biggest challenge of war and peace in the world today. The body entrusted with maintaining international peace and security cannot be missing in action," he said.
"The Council must at last find the unity to act. It must use its authority for peace," Ban said.
Ban has been a frequent critic of Assad over the conflict, which erupted in March 2011 with anti-regime protests but soon escalated into a full-scale uprising in which more than 100,000 people have died, according to UN figures.
Source : Sapa-AFP /kn
Date : 29 Aug 2013 04:05
killadoob
Honorary Master
Yay some thought before bombs, my gosh this is new. Not easy to fool people twice. So glad to see people are waking up and wanting undeniable proof before believing the word of known liars.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
Turkey on alert against possible chemical attacks
Officials say Turkey is on alert against possible chemical attacks from Syria and has stocked food and gas masks along their shared border.
The Turkish government's crisis management center said on Twitter on Thursday that officials had designated bunkers at seven areas along the border to protect the people in the area from harm.
It also said a team of 100 chemical weapons experts were sent to the border area which was being screened for any signs of chemical attacks.
Turkey is the strongest critic of Syrian President Bashar Assad, and has backed Syria's opposition and rebels. The country said this week it would take part in any international coalition that would move against the Syrian government.
Source : Sapa-AP /sdv
Date : 29 Aug 2013 12:10
Officials say Turkey is on alert against possible chemical attacks from Syria and has stocked food and gas masks along their shared border.
The Turkish government's crisis management center said on Twitter on Thursday that officials had designated bunkers at seven areas along the border to protect the people in the area from harm.
It also said a team of 100 chemical weapons experts were sent to the border area which was being screened for any signs of chemical attacks.
Turkey is the strongest critic of Syrian President Bashar Assad, and has backed Syria's opposition and rebels. The country said this week it would take part in any international coalition that would move against the Syrian government.
Source : Sapa-AP /sdv
Date : 29 Aug 2013 12:10