The UCT - Cecil John Rhodes Statue Thread

[Nicodeamus]

While I don't agree with the removal of these statues, I also don't agree that Africans will still be "running around barefoot" as you put it. That is a racist attitude which plays into the hands of the likes of the EFF. It can just as easily be argued that South Africa would not be in the sorry state it is now if it men like Rhodes where unsuccessful.

I find it difficult to believe that Africa would have developed the necessary institutions that might civilization possible on their own had colonialism not occurred then again I'm sure you can be happy by sitting around the fire and having a life expectancy of almost over 30.

 

[etienne_marais]

I find it difficult to believe that Africa would have developed the necessary institutions that might civilization possible on their own had colonialism not occurred then again I'm sure you can be happy by sitting around the fire and having a life expectancy of almost over 30.

For me the problem is not as much their state of development, but their overly existential habits: inability to plan and cater for the future and a concept of time which differs to the West (focus on the past and ancestors, the present simply unfolds as you go along, the future does not really exist).

 

[Slootvreter]

LOL. Black Africans and their perpetual hate. As if I hate the British for the Anglo-Boer war

 

[The_Right_Honourable_Brit]

Protesting UCT students vacate Bremner Building

CAPE TOWN - Protesting University of Cape Town (UCT) students finally vacated the Bremner Building on Sunday.

Protestors had occupied the admin building for several weeks as part of a campaign which pushed for the removal of the statue of Cecil John Rhodes.

The statue was taken down from the university's upper campus last week.

UCT Vice Chancellor Max Prince said the staged sit-in at the university’s admin building was done with management’s permission.

However, after the statue was removed on Thursday afternoon the students continued to occupy the building.

University officials served the students with an eviction letter and threatened to take the matter to the High Court if they did not leave.

One of the students, Chumani Maxwele, stopped the sit-in on Sunday night.

“We don’t want to be in contempt of court or be involved in any court proceedings.”

Maxwele said the group is satisfied with management’s commitment to address issues of transformation.

http://ewn.co.za/2015/04/13/Protesting-UCT-students-vacate-Bremner-Building

 

[Fazda]

Protesting UCT students vacate Bremner Building



http://ewn.co.za/2015/04/13/Protesting-UCT-students-vacate-Bremner-Building

How kind of them!

C hrist when I was at Varsity, we would have been kicked out to next week if we had occupied one of the buildings!

 

[etienne_marais]

LOL. Black Africans and their perpetual hate. As if I hate the British for the Anglo-Boer war

You do ? I'm a bit of an anglophile myself. The war is more about perspective and historic dynamics to me.

 

[The_Right_Honourable_Brit]

How kind of them!

C hrist when I was at Varsity, we would have been kicked out to next week if we had occupied one of the buildings!

Indeed. But according to UCT itself, they (management) literally gave them the keys to Bremner and faciliated the occupation. Hopefully they don't make that mistake again :wtf:

 

[LazyLion]

Put Rhodes statue back where it belongs, Zim told

Bulawayo - A leading Zimbabwe playwright believes a statue of colonialist Cecil John Rhodes, which was taken down in Bulawayo after independence, must be put back in place to stimulate public debate, the official Sunday News reported.

Cont Mhlanga told the Bulawayo-based newspaper that re-erecting Rhodes' statue in Zimbabwe's second city would help future generations "ask pertinent questions".

"We should take every colonial symbol and put it in public. Bulawayo is Rhodes’ financial capital, so his statue must be brought back to the public so that it can be scrutinised," he was quoted as saying.

A statue of Rhodes was removed from the city centre soon after Zimbabwe's independence in 1980 and taken to the nearby National History Museum.

Mhlanga's comments come a few days after President Robert Mugabe said in South Africa that Rhodes would not be exhumed from his grave in the Matopos, a state park outside Bulawayo.

The playwright, who was recently given a licence by Mugabe's government to run a radio station in Bulawayo, criticised the Rhodes Trust, which offers scholarships to students to study at Oxford.

"There are many problems affecting our education sector. We do not have enough labs for science or even teachers. The Rhodes Trust must plough back where Rhodes looted," Mhlanga said.

There have been several calls from within Zimbabwe for authorities to buy and display the statue of Rhodes that was removed this week from the University of Cape Town.

Prominent social media entrepreneur Nigel Mugamu tweeted: "If Zimbabwe won't remove the Rhodes grave, why not buy the statue & put them together? Surely that would add value from a tourism angle?"

News24
Source: http://www.news24.com/Africa/Zimbabwe/Put-Rhodes-statue-back-where-it-belongs-Zim-told-20150413-2

 

[Willie Trombone]

"The Rhodes Trust must plough back where Rhodes looted," Mhlanga said.?"

News24
Source: http://www.news24.com/Africa/Zimbabwe/Put-Rhodes-statue-back-where-it-belongs-Zim-told-20150413-2

Lol, how about the living pay back the money they've looted first, starting with Bob and JZ?

 

[Flanders]

Lol, how about the living pay back the money they've looted first, starting with Bob and JZ?

Yep, amazing how the concept of current leaders stealing like there is no tomorrow actually being wrong is simply beyond comprehension for the majority in this country. Same story with how government must provide everything. This never-ending supply of money just comes from some mysterious place. Palms outstretched, vacant looks and giant question marks floating above their heads.

But bring up the past and suddenly they're all fscking experts on who benefited, who got screwed and the ins and outs of paying back to the last cent of what is deemed to have been stolen.

 

[JStrike]

I find it difficult to believe that Africa would have developed the necessary institutions that might civilization possible on their own had colonialism not occurred then again I'm sure you can be happy by sitting around the fire and having a life expectancy of almost over 30.

Sure. Because colonialism is the only way to share knowledge / technology

 

[LazyLion]

 

[Sherbang]

I find it difficult to believe that Africa would have developed the necessary institutions that might civilization possible on their own had colonialism not occurred then again I'm sure you can be happy by sitting around the fire and having a life expectancy of almost over 30.

How much of this is due to colonialism and how much of it would have happened anyway, in the wake of trade relations?

In colonies of white settlement the most important factor was that the highly extractive nature of colonial rule and land grabs manifested themselves, as we noted, in quite serious immiserisation of Africans during the colonial period. The evolution of the international dissemination and diffusion of technology plus the relative absence of slavery in this part of Africa makes it likely that, absent colonialism, African living standards would have slowly improved. This, plus the large increases in inequality and the racial and ethnic conflicts bequeathed to these colonies after the end of colonialism, make it plausible that development outcomes in places such as Zimbabwe would be better today and over the last century had it not been colonised.

All in all, it is difficult to bring the available evidence together with plausible counterfactuals to argue that there is any country today in Sub-Saharan Africa that is more developed because it was colonised by Europeans. Quite the contrary.

http://www.voxeu.org/article/colonialism-and-development-africa

 

[Hamster]

View attachment 207200

 

[Galactica]

Damn! Nobody seems to have the ability to touch a raw nerve with white South Africans quite like this woman, over 1400 comments!

Rhodes arouses white male fears

April 12 2015 at 07:00am
By Gillian Schutte

The #RhodesMustFall campaign makes some white men afraid that they are no longer relevant, writes Gillian Schutte.

Johannesburg - The powerful social-media platform that the student-driven #RhodesMustFall movement has given rise to has all but been misappropriated by some gatekeepers who have made use of its momentum for their own ambition and even their personal vendettas.

Not that it has not been compelling to watch academics and opinion-makers alike veering around their “I am not racist but …” and “We agree, but only halfway…” agendas in order to politick for maximum popularity from all sides of the ideology map – and possibly even canvas for academic or political leverage.

It seems social movements that become momentous are often quickly arrogated by expedient male gatekeepers (and wannabes) as platforms for self-aggrandisement.

None so much as some white male gatekeepers who have even used these platforms as a form of social media Viagra for their flagging relevancy anxieties as they insert their strident views into these struggles – some even casting themselves in a virile and heroic role.

Let’s face it, the de-erection of Cecil John Rhodes is having a terrible impact on those white male gatekeepers who are feeling “so last month” and many suggest the un-hanging of Rhodes is dysfunctional.

Their mostly liberal arguments, though, remain flaccid in the face of collective black fed-upness and rage and their clamorous and self-important views are mostly lost by the wayside.

I do not speak of white men who have reimagined themselves and kept up with the social trends and transformation.

I speak of those anachronistic windbags who simply seem not to know how to be anything other than 20th-century phallocrats with liberal top-down individualistic views that they assume apply to all.

They have wielded this phallic power in our society for decades and are desperately endeavouring to keep it that way by theorising to death every struggle that threatens them.

It seems that the removal of Cecil John Rhodes is at the forefront of this white male frenzy because the takedown of his effigy is certainly indicative of the beginning of the dislodging of the assumed white male supremacy over our public sphere.

Many of these liberal white gatekeepers have scrambled to become overtly significant in this discussion around the demise of imperial and apartheid effigies in celebratory public spaces.

Some have claimed, in paternalistic tones, that they understand black rage and they empathise with it, as if they are speaking of collective teenage angst that will surely last only so long. Some have argued that the statue must be moved – but not altogether. Some have even claimed that they are in solidarity with the students, but then have insisted that the statue be moved to a less important place on the same campus. They have even reminisced “prematurely” that the statue, if moved, may one day be returned to the campus… you know… when the natives have calmed down and realised that they need white men to rule the roost.

Are they seriously imagining that finally the majority will make the rational choice to listen to them and not upset the status quo?

More.

 

[JStrike]

How much of this is due to colonialism and how much of it would have happened anyway, in the wake of trade relations?



http://www.voxeu.org/article/colonialism-and-development-africa

Very good analysis

 

[Hamster]

I read up to Gillian Schutte...and then I stopped caring.

 

[JStrike]

I read up to Gillian Schutte...and then I stopped caring.

So you only care about opinions pieces by journalists that have the same opinions as you?

 

[Crowley]

I read up to Gillian Schutte...and then I stopped caring.

If you look up white guilt in the dictionary it has a photo of her.

*EDIT*

Possibly one of JStrike as well.

 

[TriGuN]

Damn! Nobody seems to have the ability to touch a raw nerve with white South Africans quite like this woman, over 1400 comments!


More.

Apparently white men are very relevant, which is why South Africa, Schutte, and huge numbers of people throughout the world won't stfu about us. Ever. Their world revolves around us.

Schutte is as Pagan as the pope.