The ZAR Exchange Rate Thread

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HavocXphere said:
Is there an easy way to short the ZAR on a longish timespan?
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1: transfer cash offshore ... depending on where to, yes it is easy e.g. Euro Pacific Bank will let you open an account remotely with just typical FICA type checks and you can pick which currency to hold your account in from a number of global ones

2: buy Kruger Rands, get used to all the mocking and jokes, but the fact is gold is surging against virtually all currencies and it sure as hell hedges nicely against the ZAR
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
1: transfer cash offshore ... depending on where to, yes it is easy e.g. Euro Pacific Bank will let you open an account remotely with just typical FICA type checks and you can pick which currency to hold your account in from a number of global ones

2: buy Kruger Rands, get used to all the mocking and jokes, but the fact is gold is surging against virtually all currencies and it sure as hell hedges nicely against the ZAR
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Goldbuggery := The mockery that one receives for buying gold as an investment.
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
1: transfer cash offshore ... depending on where to, yes it is easy e.g. Euro Pacific Bank will let you open an account remotely with just typical FICA type checks and you can pick which currency to hold your account in from a number of global ones
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Really? Surely they want like R100 000.00 minimum deposit or something.
 
Ockie said:
mmmmm will look into this tonight and check out their website. Fees reasonable and easy to access money?
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you'd have to check it out yourself, imo fees seem reasonable, I'm not a customer though so can't comment beyond what is on their website

fwiw the bank is registered in Saint Vincent & Grenadines and specifically does not allow US customers so that they do not fall under the FATCA laws
 
If you want to move some money offshore, but don't have that much to move and don't want an account with heavy banking fees, have a look at Revolut. I've used them for about a month with no issues. I'm still waiting for the Post Office to deliver my physical card, but my bf received his card recently so there is hope (It's sent from the UK via Royal Mail).

It's an app on your phone that has a virtual card, which can then also be sent to you as a physical card.

https://revolut.com/
 
Swa said:
You've made no point.
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Lol.

If you're in a cell with no way out and you have a choice between a gold bar and a steady supply of water, which one is more valuable to you? Which one is more valuable to you if you can get more water somewhere else?

If I've got 1 000 fruit then I really don't care much about the 1 fruit you happen to have. If I've got no fruit, however, then 1 fruit from you might be something I'm willing to pay for in its weight in gold.

This is the system which governs the human mechanism of reaching an agreement with respect to value. There's simply no such thing as intrinsic value the way you claim exists. Value is a creation of the human mind, no more, no less. Creation of values is a neccessary part of computing relative desirability in terms of decision-making heirarchies in the brain. It is a mistake to think they exist in the Universe divorced from of our minds.
 
Xarog said:
Lol.

If you're in a cell with no way out and you have a choice between a gold bar and a steady supply of water, which one is more valuable to you? Which one is more valuable to you if you can get more water somewhere else?

If I've got 1 000 fruit then I really don't care much about the 1 fruit you happen to have. If I've got no fruit, however, then 1 fruit from you might be something I'm willing to pay for in its weight in gold.

This is the system which governs the human mechanism of reaching an agreement with respect to value. There's simply no such thing as intrinsic value the way you claim exists. Value is a creation of the human mind, no more, no less. Creation of values is a neccessary part of computing relative desirability in terms of decision-making heirarchies in the brain. It is a mistake to think they exist in the Universe divorced from of our minds.
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;)

You should charge for your lessons, you put that a lot more concisely than I could, you think he might get it now?
 
RustyPrincess said:
If you want to move some money offshore, but don't have that much to move and don't want an account with heavy banking fees, have a look at Revolut. I've used them for about a month with no issues. I'm still waiting for the Post Office to deliver my physical card, but my bf received his card recently so there is hope (It's sent from the UK via Royal Mail).

It's an app on your phone that has a virtual card, which can then also be sent to you as a physical card.

https://revolut.com/
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Looks good...but if you top up the Revolut account with a South African card then the local bank here will convert Rand to GBR, $ or Euro and will charge you a large amount for the conversion. On facebook they say they are working on adding other currencies, so international customers wont pay this (I assume) but who knows when that will happen.
 
FlashSA said:
.5% Interest rate hike an almost certainty now :-/
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0.5% would be a proverbial wee-wee against a category 5 hurricane, they'd have to copy our interest rate moves from 1998 where even at 18% already the SARB still had to hike all the way to 24.5% in the space of only 7 months to make a dent in global sentiment vs the ZAR

You can only pull that trick once in a good while though, doubt it will work long term and obviously comes with a heavy price to pay for your citizens. Fasten your seatbelts ...

for that matter Russia pulled that trick to good effect too in December 2014, instantly hiking by 7% (yes 700 basis points!) to give the markets a "cold shower"
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
0.5% would be a proverbial wee-wee against a category 5 hurricane, they'd have to copy our interest rate moves from 1998 where even at 18% already the SARB still had to hike all the way to 24.5% in the space of only 7 months to make a dent in global sentiment vs the ZAR

You can only pull that trick once in a good while though, doubt it will work long term and obviously comes with a heavy price to pay for your citizens. Fasten your seatbelts ...

for that matter Russia pulled that trick to good effect too in December 2014, instantly hiking by 7% (yes 700 basis points!) to give the markets a "cold shower"
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Except how does South Africa avoid junk status and basically a default as a result of such a move?
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
for that matter Russia pulled that trick to good effect too in December 2014, instantly hiking by 7% (yes 700 basis points!) to give the markets a "cold shower"
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That Russian Roulette would send millions into debt rescue in this country. Can you even imagine the crisis!!
 
Xarog said:
Except how does South Africa avoid junk status and basically a default as a result of such a move?
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We've been junk before http://businesstech.co.za/news/general/75898/sas-credit-rating-status/

At least 2 of the 3 rating agencies had us at junk status between 1994 and 1999, we survived right?

Granted the debt and the stakes are much higher now, but as a %-of-GDP our sovereign debt is minuscule compared to USA, Germany, Japan, Spain etc etc

With some decent economic policy we should be able to convince creditors to have some patience, hence I'm mostly worried about said economic plan, one that can convince a global market, hiking the living hell out of your lending rates temporarily to stem capital outflow while you regroup shouldn't make such a plan impossible, but the existence of zumatello unfortunately does ...
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
We've been junk before http://businesstech.co.za/news/general/75898/sas-credit-rating-status/

At least 2 of the 3 rating agencies had us at junk status between 1994 and 1999, we survived right?

Granted the debt and the stakes are much higher now, but as a %-of-GDP our sovereign debt is minuscule compared to USA, Germany, Japan, Spain etc etc

With some decent economic policy we should be able to convince creditors to have some patience, hence I'm mostly worried about said economic plan, one that can convince a global market, hiking the living hell out of your lending rates temporarily to stem capital outflow while you regroup shouldn't make such a plan impossible, but the existence of zumatello unfortunately does ...
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Hence my question... :p

I think Zumatello's presence means such a sharp hike being impossible to pull off without banana republic conditions setting in.
 
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