'They're forming a black DA'

[semiautomatix]

'They're forming a black DA'

This article is f**king hilarious!

Describing the spearheaders of the convention as "born-again democrats aiming at forming a black DA", Cosatu said the convention would fail as it insulted the intelligence of South Africans and was in contempt of democracy.

Well clearly none of those in Cosatu.

Haven't the SACPNCosatu been claiming for years that the official opposition should have a black leader so as not to insult South Africans?

The national convention's aim was to divide and disrupt the ANC and its allies, Cosatu said on Thursday.

Oh, maybe I'm wrong, they actually do get it. OF COURSE ITS TO DIVIDE AND DISRUPT THE ANC. In the name of democracy, actually - something I have to applaud.

"For the minority of delegates who may be attending this jamboree mistakenly believing that it is a genuine political movement with serious policies, we suggest that you pose and ask yourselves what they have done, during their term of office, to fight corruption and cronyism."

Er... pot, kettle, black anyone?

People should consider that the "new DA" would abandon economic policies they previously promoted while still within the ranks of the ruling party.

We don't even know what their policies are yet! And who cares, its not like the ANC is doing a super-fantastic job with their economic policies!

"Why did [they] not object when the RDP was abandoned in favour of the neo-liberal GEAR strategy which led to massive job losses, poverty and widening inequalities?" Cosatu asked.

Um, why didn't you object?

The "black DA" was hypocritical in that while it claimed to be fighting against undemocratic organisational practices, it had refused to accept the democratic process at the ANC's national conference in Polokwane.

Once again, THE ANC IS NOT THE GOVERNMENT. There was no democratic process, it was internal party politics. These guys are clearly incapable of understanding otherwise.

Yes, Cosatu, South Africans are not stupid and we can see straight through you! These guys have yet to prove themselves. You've had 14 years and we know your true colours and intentions.

Viva Shikota! Viva! Heehee. I think I might just got to Sandton to see whats going on!

 

[ToxicBunny]

that was a brilliant read... These fools in cosatu do have an ability to utter the biggest load of drivel

 

[kingmonty]

Describing the spearheaders of the convention as "born-again democrats aiming at forming a black DA", Cosatu said the convention would fail as it insulted the intelligence of South Africans and was in contempt of democracy.

I have emailed the ANC, SACP, the ANCYL and COSATU and asked them for their definition of democracy. In the highly unlikely event that I do get a response, I wonder if their definitions will be even close.

 

[JungleBoy]

Guys my understanding of democracy is that it's not limited to the state as you can clearly see in the definition below.

1. government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
2. a state having such a form of government: The United States and Canada are democracies.
3. a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.
4. political or social equality; democratic spirit.
5. the common people of a community as distinguished from any privileged class; the common people with respect to their political power.

Now are they wrong to claim that the dissidents are undemocratic ?
Why are they turning their backs against their elected leaders?
How will they react in their new organisation if they are not elected to positions?

 

[LazyLion]

For all the irrelevancy of this new party, they certainly do have a lot to say about it. /methinks they are very very worried.

 

[semiautomatix]

For all the irrelevancy of this new party, they certainly do have a lot to say about it. /methinks they are very very worried.

We can only hope!

 

[kingmonty]

Guys my understanding of democracy is that it's not limited to the state as you can clearly see in the definition below.



Now are they wrong to claim that the dissidents are undemocratic ?

Yes.

Why are they turning their backs against their elected leaders?

Who elected them? The farcical bullying that happened at Polokwane was not a democratic process - no matter how you try and sugar coat it. Just because there was a vote, doesn't make it democratic.

How will they react in their new organisation if they are not elected to positions?

They have nothing to lose. Besides, if they are even just a little succesful, it is a win for democracy and more importantly a release on the stranglehold that the ANC has on South African politics.

 

[TheHiveMind]

Guys my understanding of democracy is that it's not limited to the state as you can clearly see in the definition below.



Now are they wrong to claim that the dissidents are undemocratic ?
Why are they turning their backs against their elected leaders?
How will they react in their new organisation if they are not elected to positions?

-Yes, democracy is about choice, and they seem to want to limit that choice to one party so they do not have to perform while they are getting rich quick. Competition is healthy and forces them to actually do what we are paying them to do in order to maintain the benefits of their positions. They do not like that idea. They would rather do what they wanna do, then what we want them to do. Thats not democracy.
-There are Many possible valid reasons, and many possible selfish reasons. Probably a few of each.
-Maybe the same way the ANC acts when it is feels at all threatened that the same situation will come true for them? Maybe they will take the higher ground, who knows?

 

[JungleBoy]

-Yes, democracy is about choice, and they seem to want to limit that choice to one party so they do not have to perform while they are getting rich quick. Competition is healthy and forces them to actually do what we are paying them to do in order to maintain the benefits of their positions.?
They do not like that idea. They would rather do what they wanna do, then what we want them to do. Thats not democracy.
-There are Many possible valid reasons, and many possible selfish reasons. Probably a few of each.
-Maybe the same way the ANC acts when it is feels at all threatened that the same situation will come true for them? Maybe they will take the higher ground, who knows?

Who are you refering to Lekota/Shilowa or the new ANC NEC?
As far as I recall Lekota/Shilowa and Co have been in very powerful positions in Gvt and ANC all along. They didn't deliver to the people of SA nor did they deliver within their own party hence they have since been replaced.

 

[JungleBoy]

Yes.Who elected them? The farcical bullying that happened at Polokwane was not a democratic process - no matter how you try and sugar coat it. Just because there was a vote, doesn't make it democratic.They have nothing to lose. Besides, if they are even just a little succesful, it is a win for democracy and more importantly a release on the stranglehold that the ANC has on South African politics.

About 40% of the deligates at the Polokwane conference voted for them. If there was bullying how did that 40% manage to vote for the candidates of their choice?

Just because you lost an election does not make it any less democratic. I think that is what you are failing to see.

 

[Albereth]

About 40% of the deligates at the Polokwane conference voted for them. If there was bullying how did that 40% manage to vote for the candidates of their choice?

Just because you lost an election does not make it any less democratic. I think that is what you are failing to see.

Who gives a hoot about the processes at Polokwane? They have nothing to do with the attack on the democratic government that we are supposed to have. Supposedly about 400,000 people (less than 1% of the ZA population) got to vote for the ANC NEC through the process and only 60% of those voted for Zuma and his cronies. Now South Africa is being run on a 'majority' of around 0.5%.

And that is what a lot of people are failing to see.

 

[kingmonty]

About 40% of the deligates at the Polokwane conference voted for them. If there was bullying how did that 40% manage to vote for the candidates of their choice?

Just because you lost an election does not make it any less democratic. I think that is what you are failing to see.

So what happened to the other 60%?

 

[JungleBoy]

Who gives a hoot about the processes at Polokwane? They have nothing to do with the attack on the democratic government that we are supposed to have. Supposedly about 400,000 people (less than 1% of the ZA population) got to vote for the ANC NEC through the process and only 60% of those voted for Zuma and his cronies. Now South Africa is being run on a 'majority' of around 0.5%.

And that is what a lot of people are failing to see.

Unfortunately, that's how it will remain so long as we have the party politics system in the country.
The masses choose a party and the chosen party rules the country for 5 years. The masses can review their choice after five years which is what is going to happen next year. How is this contrary to democracy that I'm failing to see?

 

[JungleBoy]

So what happened to the other 60%?

They voted for the current ANC leadership.
...or am I misunderstanding your question?

 

[kingmonty]

Unfortunately, that's how it will remain so long as we have the party politics system in the country.
The masses choose a party and the chosen party rules the country for 5 years. The masses can review their choice after five years which is what is going to happen next year. How is this contrary to democracy that I'm failing to see?

Well, removing Thabo Mbeki as the president of the country was significantly undemocratic - in fact, it amounts to nothing more than a coup d’état. Secondly, ANCYL and COSATU leaders are attacking the formation of new parties, which in the preample of our own constitution (which is the big cheese document of our democracy) deems such activities highly contentious and most unconstitional - and by the definition of a democracy, grossly undemocratic.

 

[semiautomatix]

They voted for the current ANC leadership.
...or am I misunderstanding your question?

Technically, the voted against the current government leadership. Yet our system of democracy is problematic in that the moment leadership changes in the majority party, changes occur in government. This is NOT the will of the people and should only be determined by vote. I would call for this country to implement presidential elections, and MPs to be elected by constituents. The Party list system in a multi-member constituency through proportional representation is not working properly as their is little or no accountability.

We need leaders, such as US congressmen, that are directly approachable by their constituents.

 

[kingmonty]

They voted for the current ANC leadership.
...or am I misunderstanding your question?

So, 60% voted for Jacob and his fanbois, while 40% voted for T-Bone? So, that effectively means that 40% of the ANC delegates (Not the ANC persay) is unrepresented in the current administration, no?

 

[grayston]

I have emailed the ANC, SACP, the ANCYL and COSATU and asked them for their definition of democracy. In the highly unlikely event that I do get a response, I wonder if their definitions will be even close.

"Democracy is when the majority agrees with us."

 

[semiautomatix]

So, 60% voted for Jacob and his fanbois, while 40% voted for T-Bone? So, that effectively means that 40% of the ANC delegates (Not the ANC persay) is unrepresented in the current administration, no?

Which gives us a lot of hope for the so called "SANC".

 

[kingmonty]

Which gives us a lot of hope for the so called "SANC".

Well, probably not. Lekota is not a very popular person within ANC structures - including with the people. Chances are people would still rather vote for Jacob Zuma than Lekota - the swing vote would have happened to the SANC if Mbeki endorsed them. Mbeki's endorsement is quite powerful, and clearly (judging from the now infamous letter) the ANC knows this.