semiautomatix
Honorary Master
I do not expect a major swing vote in this election at all. But enough of a vote to pull attention away from the ANC is a good start.
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- Thread starter semiautomatix
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I do not expect a major swing vote in this election at all. But enough of a vote to pull attention away from the ANC is a good start.
That's pretty much how majority vote works. If you are out-voted you have two choices
1. Suck it up and try again in the next elections
2. Form your own break-away party. That way you'll be assured of being elected.
Lekota has chosen no 2.
Shouldn't democracy mean that you accept the outcome even if it does not favour you?
Would he be starting this party if he was elected?
He has the makings of a dictator, someone who'd do anything to cling to power.
semiautomatix
Honorary Master
Er... its that mentality that you have that scares me. Many Republicans or Democrats in the US have run as independents from time to time. No one labels these "rebels" dictators-in-the-making. Just a far more mature democracy, I guess.
Lekota is following principles he discussed over a decade ago. Now that is sticking to your principles. I admire his stance.
It depends entirely on your model of democracy used. In any event, there is no way that the two strongest candidates the ANC could find were put forward. It's common knowledge that the ANCYL and COSATU and ACDP structures forced their man in there, so it doesn't really matter how the vote went, it was a farce to begin with. Strangely, the ANC's electoral structure is on a winner takes all basis, yet the democracy model on which our country runs is a proportional representation model. Odd that the former is considered perfectly democratic when it is so extremely flawed...
Who was his man? Mbeki? Mbeki wasn't going to run in another election after this anyway, so no, not an option.
This is where you seem to harbour some agression towards Lekota. It is his right to form a political party as he wishes. The country allows him to do this. The constitution allows him to do this. Democracy and good governance encourages him to do this. Starting a political party is not all about wanting to rule.
What if the result was based on a farcical by-election (that really shouldn't be used to pass resolutions about the laws governing the country)? The point of a democracy is that you're accountable to the people who put you in power when elected to power, and to keep those that were elected to power accountable for their actions - also acting in the will of the people. One could argue - successfully - that Lekota is doing exactly that.
He wasn't in the running. You seem to have employed a strawman argument in your reasoning here. I shall revisit if I were you.
Same was said about Thabo Mbeki - he consciously and aggressively campaigned for a 3rd term as ANC leader - that would seem far more "dictatorial" than Lekota...
dlk001
Executive Member
When is Lekota resigning from the ANC by the way? Most people who follow him have resigned or handed in their membership cards.
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Albereth
Honorary Master
I never said you were 'failing to see' anything.
However you seem to think that it is a democratic process. So I guess you are 'failing to see'. Yes, you understand how it works but to you that is all fine.
You have absolutely no problem that the people voted based on what was told to them 5 years ago, and that those people had the expectation that whatever was told to them would be delivered. Those people did not expect that some arbitary idiot could suddenly change policy without any recourse to the people. Millions of people voted for Mbeki but the idiots representing about 0.5% of the population decided to get rid of him. And that's fine?
Now, you can have your personal view about the outcome but when the process of getting rid of him is just wrong there are some serious questions that need to be asked. Tell me where your view would be if the idiots suddenly decide to change the constitution tomorrow. The parliamentary sheep will go baaa and vote as told and you may very well have had your last vote 4 years ago.
dlk001
Executive Member
But, millions voted for ANC not Mbeki. 0.5% of the population decided on Mbeki in Stellebosch during the 51st National Conference. If millions voted for Mbeki, then 2009 would decide whether recalling of Mbeki was fine or not.
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Albereth
Honorary Master
It still had to go to the poll and his name was linked with the No 1 job. Voters went into the election knowing the score. Buy one, get the other free.
semiautomatix
Honorary Master
What in the hell is your obsession with this? There are bigger things afoot but you are so wrapped up with your own internal party politics you fail to see the bigger picture. You are a clear indication of how far from reality the ANC is as it so obsessed about its precious little party it forgot how to run a country!
semiautomatix
Honorary Master
I'm pretty sure I saw his name and picture next to ANC on the ballot paper. Oh well, at least I know what not to vote for, JZ's face scares the s**t out of me!
dlk001
Executive Member
Indeed voters went into the election with Mbeki because voters sent delegates from many areas of SA to Stellebosch to vote for Mbeki.
In a similar fashion, delegates from many areas of SA were sent to Polokwane and most of them did not vote for Mbeki. That was arguably a first sign of disapproval of Mbeki.
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dlk001
Executive Member
What in the hell is your obsession with this? There are bigger things afoot but you are so wrapped up with your own internal party politics you fail to see the bigger picture. You are a clear indication of how far from reality the ANC is as it so obsessed about its precious little party it forgot how to run a country!
You are a clear indication of an obsession into your internal politics and me.
All of this is irrelevent. Thabo Mbeki was removed from the presidency of the country forcibly by the ANC - this is tantamount proof that the ANC deems itself above the South African constitution.
semiautomatix
Honorary Master
You're just as brainwashed as the rest of them. The ANC is not the government. Should you not be more concerned about the problems that are causing this mass exodus from the ANC, rather than whether Terror Lekota (a freedom fighter and struggle hero) is resigning his membership or not?
dlk001
Executive Member
In 2009, many people will have their say on whether they agree or disagree with Mbeki's removal.
If ANC deemed itself above SA constitution, in your opinion which aspect of our constitution did the ANC go against with respect to Thabo's matter?
dlk001
Executive Member
You sound already brainwashed by yourself into believing I should be concerned about ANC. I don't give a damn about problems that are causing this mass exodus from the ANC.
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Except Polokwane was not run by all voters, not supervised by the IEC
and there was only one candidate = Zuma.
So you fail in trying to justify this unconstitutional act.
semiautomatix
Honorary Master
"I know you are but what am I?"
Your responses are extremely juvenile. Are you sure you aren't Julius Malema?
Albereth
Honorary Master
Rubbish - people have been disapproving of Mbeki for a long time e.g. the fact that he was always out of the country, his approach to dealing with Ugly Bob, AIDS denial, etc.
Yet the manner in which he left wasn't in accordance with the wishes of the people of South Africa. He was asked to resign by a bunch of idiots representing (at best) 0.5% of the population.
That he resigned, and the content of his letter, showed that he put the party first and not the country - but that is another story.