If one house hold can afford DSTV @ R500 and they will have to fight over the remote to enjoy all the chanels but imagine that same house hold is being offered R100 DSTV and you have no more fights over the remote cause they will get DSTV for everyone cause it's so cheap. Just goes to show you the finance guys at DSTV don't know less is more.
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Question of the Day: If you were buying a TV today, which brand would you choose?
This is how you must do it DSTV
- Thread starter benitok
- Start date
If one house hold can afford DSTV @ R500 and they will have to fight over the remote to enjoy all the chanels but imagine that same house hold is being offered R100 DSTV and you have no more fights over the remote cause they will get DSTV for everyone cause it's so cheap. Just goes to show you the finance guys at DSTV don't know less is more.
I just connected my BSTV again for the super 14. It's the only thing I want to watch from monochoice. As soon as the super 14 is done I am moving to ODM.
Lemon369 said:
I don't care how you try to spin it the current offering is a rip off.
Jola
Honorary Master
The whole world works on sales volumes nowadays (with the exception of some specialty products), but some people are just too stupid to see it.
the thing is - It's one of those services that, it DOES NOT COST YOU MORE if you have more people using your service - it's satellite signals - it's going to cost X-amount to run whether you have 20 thousand subscribers or 20 million.
therefore, it makes sense to have more people paying less, than less people paying more.
Are the finance guys at multichoice just idjits or something?
therefore, it makes sense to have more people paying less, than less people paying more.
Are the finance guys at multichoice just idjits or something?
I'm not grumpy, i'm a consumer..i pay for dstv (multiple accounts), pay for adsl, pay for telephone line (even though i don't want it but telkom packages it that way, pay for various items to my body corporate (some that i don't agree wth and some that i'm not even aware of) and obviously choose to purchase 100's of other service and products.
What i'm saying is that there is an acceptable and productive comments and then what i can only call 'garbage' (or 'unfair' to be pc) posted in this thread.
1. Standardised equipment is great but not technologically practical. I would love 1 console and be able to play all games (why have 3, Wii, PS3, X-Box and then even the PC and handheld games with exclusives, i miss out on the xbox and wii exclusives, but i don't trash Sony because i chose their product, yes it's more expensive (they all are) because they choose uniquely designed products). There are various factors for providing specific requirements for a product including market needs (that is, my and your needs). Another example, someething happened to my telkom 200VWR modem power adaptor, no where can i find an adaptor that is of the same specification, so i had to go buy a new one ...using a higher rated adapter kept on dropping my line (xdsl line not synchronised). So yes, great overall, but not practical...i prefer knowing that i can purchase equipment intended of *my* needs and use. If we talk about decoders, it might have introduced tons of additional issues with activiations, channel changes (adding, removing, etc) or network issues...even general product functionality issues...the implementation of a feature has to be accepted as designed and if you have multiple standard decoders, the functionality by customers would differ depending on the decoder htey purchased.
2. Sky HD - won't even bother looking at the cost cos i know it can't be less than free unless they paying customers to watch their HD services, so it's a moot point. With the charge of R550 or R580 a month, it's not for HD channels, i suggest you actually contact multichoice and find out what you are paying for. It's probably for the premium boquet you have and additional service (xtraview or recording functionality) but HD is still definitely 'free'.
3. I'm not sure of all Multichoice's offerings, but there is choice...firstly, the perspective of choice varies, i like the fact that i have the choice to watch whatever is available on their network, similarly, i wouldn't purchase a ADSL internet access that limited my access in certain ways (I wish bandwidth could be one of those criteria, but living in SA, i've accepted that internet accesss means certain shaping and bandwidth constraints as a consumer), but would i choose to buy a local only, would i choose to buy a gaming access only...absolutely not...i want the choice of using it as i choose to use it at any time. That's choice to me...your interpretation of choice as in the selection of channels, i'm not sure of a satellite company in teh world that allows the selection of channels, grouping of channels, yes, and there is some very attractive ones, but we all know this is a numbers game, you have to be comfortable u can secure enough subscribers to that bouquet otherwise drop it from your offering, that could probably mean certain 'niche' channels would need to be dropped ike the car channel, home channel, financial channels, religious channels, etc.
4. If you would like to twist my words to argue on a very serious allegation and probably a very relevant concern, then that's fine, i don't feel they are..if you feel they are, you should take the effort to research the service/product, articulate it appropriately and drive it home (I do this on a daily basis as a consumer....it's not that we don't have consumers that complain in SA, we don't have the consumers taking the appropriate effort to resolve issues...that's my opinion)...so if you still feel like they are screwing you, then ultimate response is obviously the consumer right of *NOT* choosing that service/product, there are alternatives.
5. Answered above. Additionally, i was only comparing the Singapore company because that was the one mentioned. I would love to have some tabulate a comparison out of interest, and i would provide a (personal) response, but as i said, we live in SA, and it's a unique environment, the only time i'm willing to really be critical of a company is when a competitor in that sector shows that there is an issue. Microsoft has been 'victim' to this many times...locally, telkom was made out to be some kind of big baddie, and honestly, i believe there are some practices that are not fair, but neotel didn't deliver us from this, why ? because when they started operating under the same conditions, the promises of low pricing and great service delivery where smashed to smithereen's by the reality hammer...
I'm not here to convince anyone, as Jola has done, we are adults and fully aware of our rights as consumers even when not as drastic as this (maybe going to a consumer forum or the likes before cancelling), but i will in no way even suggest what another person should or shouldn't do, my intent was to share an opinion on the service as a consumer and to share my opinion to the response of the thread which i thought was unfair and extreme...take it as you want too, this is the internet and i'll accept the fact that people will hang onto their opinions like a life line even when they know it's flawed and unreasonable.
What i'm saying is that there is an acceptable and productive comments and then what i can only call 'garbage' (or 'unfair' to be pc) posted in this thread.
1. Standardised equipment is great but not technologically practical. I would love 1 console and be able to play all games (why have 3, Wii, PS3, X-Box and then even the PC and handheld games with exclusives, i miss out on the xbox and wii exclusives, but i don't trash Sony because i chose their product, yes it's more expensive (they all are) because they choose uniquely designed products). There are various factors for providing specific requirements for a product including market needs (that is, my and your needs). Another example, someething happened to my telkom 200VWR modem power adaptor, no where can i find an adaptor that is of the same specification, so i had to go buy a new one ...using a higher rated adapter kept on dropping my line (xdsl line not synchronised). So yes, great overall, but not practical...i prefer knowing that i can purchase equipment intended of *my* needs and use. If we talk about decoders, it might have introduced tons of additional issues with activiations, channel changes (adding, removing, etc) or network issues...even general product functionality issues...the implementation of a feature has to be accepted as designed and if you have multiple standard decoders, the functionality by customers would differ depending on the decoder htey purchased.
2. Sky HD - won't even bother looking at the cost cos i know it can't be less than free unless they paying customers to watch their HD services, so it's a moot point. With the charge of R550 or R580 a month, it's not for HD channels, i suggest you actually contact multichoice and find out what you are paying for. It's probably for the premium boquet you have and additional service (xtraview or recording functionality) but HD is still definitely 'free'.
3. I'm not sure of all Multichoice's offerings, but there is choice...firstly, the perspective of choice varies, i like the fact that i have the choice to watch whatever is available on their network, similarly, i wouldn't purchase a ADSL internet access that limited my access in certain ways (I wish bandwidth could be one of those criteria, but living in SA, i've accepted that internet accesss means certain shaping and bandwidth constraints as a consumer), but would i choose to buy a local only, would i choose to buy a gaming access only...absolutely not...i want the choice of using it as i choose to use it at any time. That's choice to me...your interpretation of choice as in the selection of channels, i'm not sure of a satellite company in teh world that allows the selection of channels, grouping of channels, yes, and there is some very attractive ones, but we all know this is a numbers game, you have to be comfortable u can secure enough subscribers to that bouquet otherwise drop it from your offering, that could probably mean certain 'niche' channels would need to be dropped ike the car channel, home channel, financial channels, religious channels, etc.
4. If you would like to twist my words to argue on a very serious allegation and probably a very relevant concern, then that's fine, i don't feel they are..if you feel they are, you should take the effort to research the service/product, articulate it appropriately and drive it home (I do this on a daily basis as a consumer....it's not that we don't have consumers that complain in SA, we don't have the consumers taking the appropriate effort to resolve issues...that's my opinion)...so if you still feel like they are screwing you, then ultimate response is obviously the consumer right of *NOT* choosing that service/product, there are alternatives.
5. Answered above. Additionally, i was only comparing the Singapore company because that was the one mentioned. I would love to have some tabulate a comparison out of interest, and i would provide a (personal) response, but as i said, we live in SA, and it's a unique environment, the only time i'm willing to really be critical of a company is when a competitor in that sector shows that there is an issue. Microsoft has been 'victim' to this many times...locally, telkom was made out to be some kind of big baddie, and honestly, i believe there are some practices that are not fair, but neotel didn't deliver us from this, why ? because when they started operating under the same conditions, the promises of low pricing and great service delivery where smashed to smithereen's by the reality hammer...
I'm not here to convince anyone, as Jola has done, we are adults and fully aware of our rights as consumers even when not as drastic as this (maybe going to a consumer forum or the likes before cancelling), but i will in no way even suggest what another person should or shouldn't do, my intent was to share an opinion on the service as a consumer and to share my opinion to the response of the thread which i thought was unfair and extreme...take it as you want too, this is the internet and i'll accept the fact that people will hang onto their opinions like a life line even when they know it's flawed and unreasonable.
Nerfherder
Honorary Master
Lemon, you are getting screwed. There is no way around it.
Let me explain how it works in Egypt. They are also an African contry and are a better comparison then the UK or Europe.
To get satelite TV in Egypt you walk in to a TV store and purchase an decoder, then you pay some dude to install a satelite dish. Then he sets it up for you and you watch satelite TV. There are a large number of free to air channels that you can watch, if you want more then you phone them, make a payment and you can watch them.
How simple is this ! Everyone has satelite TV there, even the poor people !
Half the channels on DSTV are free to air. We should not be paying for them, al the pay channels should be optional add on services. We should be able to get whatever decoder we want and should have multiple providers. Its so simple really....
We take it up the butt...no doubt about it.
Let me explain how it works in Egypt. They are also an African contry and are a better comparison then the UK or Europe.
To get satelite TV in Egypt you walk in to a TV store and purchase an decoder, then you pay some dude to install a satelite dish. Then he sets it up for you and you watch satelite TV. There are a large number of free to air channels that you can watch, if you want more then you phone them, make a payment and you can watch them.
How simple is this ! Everyone has satelite TV there, even the poor people !
Half the channels on DSTV are free to air. We should not be paying for them, al the pay channels should be optional add on services. We should be able to get whatever decoder we want and should have multiple providers. Its so simple really....
We take it up the butt...no doubt about it.
Jola
Honorary Master
@Benitok : Does that not apply to everything ? Wouldn't 100's of companies be knocking on your door if you would offer your services for a 10th of what you do ? I have 3 nursery schools in my immediate area, and I love the idea that one would charge half the price (R1500) of the other 2 and get all the kids there and just a few extra teachers....but that's not how the world works...so to answer your question, Yes, they would obviously get more subscribers...i'm no marketing or business fundi (actually i'm not at all in marketing or business), but i do know that a business identifies a need, segments the market by various criteria, accesses the product/service for a medium between attractive price and profitability relative to market pricing and customer value. The aspect of marketing that is more important than price is value. and it's subject, i see value in the offering when i compare to other entertainment options.
I'm not going to suggest what value there is for individuals, but i got 2 kids and i love sports, there is definitely no cheaper option than DStv and it has great value for me ! (btw, i also don't like cinema's but i prefer watching movies from a video store). So #'s (volume) is not the answer...least not for every business...Mercedes (arguably) doesn't sell volume but they have a very successful business, 100's of examples can be given...(Discovery is another...expensive but to some clients there is tons of value in their medical aid..and i'm not going to trash them on price just because i don't see the value)....selling in volume sometimes reduces your product to a commodity, and that's another risk.
@Nerf : Free to Air services is generally the public broadcaster's responsibility, i would love to say all companies (and telkom should listen) should be giving away stuff, but you wouldn't expect to give your services away for free (least from a dstv perspective), so that's a moot point for me, i'm sorry, but pricing is pricing and based on several factors that you might or might not be aware of, so it's just pointless getting into that type of argument, as i said, it has value to me, if it doesn't for you then you should not use as Jola is (not saying it's a price decision or even value decision for you, could be service levels, i'm just saying you chose not to have it anymore). If you are talking about to the masses, then yes, the public broadcaster (SABC) should definitely do more...more quality and local programming, easier access to it (i believe a DTT decoder will be launch in the future) and freely availably on as many platforms as possible (including internet), no arguments there.
On simplicity, i believe it's as simple here to get dstv (never heard of it being difficult)...sorry, going through your post again, i'm confused...it sounds like you beef is with the national broadcaster and their efforts...i can't imagine you suggesting a private business adopts a 'unique' or 'risky' business approach...i'm not sure of the risk but can definitely say that globally, it's not the business model for pay tv...
I'm not going to suggest what value there is for individuals, but i got 2 kids and i love sports, there is definitely no cheaper option than DStv and it has great value for me ! (btw, i also don't like cinema's but i prefer watching movies from a video store). So #'s (volume) is not the answer...least not for every business...Mercedes (arguably) doesn't sell volume but they have a very successful business, 100's of examples can be given...(Discovery is another...expensive but to some clients there is tons of value in their medical aid..and i'm not going to trash them on price just because i don't see the value)....selling in volume sometimes reduces your product to a commodity, and that's another risk.
@Nerf : Free to Air services is generally the public broadcaster's responsibility, i would love to say all companies (and telkom should listen) should be giving away stuff, but you wouldn't expect to give your services away for free (least from a dstv perspective), so that's a moot point for me, i'm sorry, but pricing is pricing and based on several factors that you might or might not be aware of, so it's just pointless getting into that type of argument, as i said, it has value to me, if it doesn't for you then you should not use as Jola is (not saying it's a price decision or even value decision for you, could be service levels, i'm just saying you chose not to have it anymore). If you are talking about to the masses, then yes, the public broadcaster (SABC) should definitely do more...more quality and local programming, easier access to it (i believe a DTT decoder will be launch in the future) and freely availably on as many platforms as possible (including internet), no arguments there.
On simplicity, i believe it's as simple here to get dstv (never heard of it being difficult)...sorry, going through your post again, i'm confused...it sounds like you beef is with the national broadcaster and their efforts...i can't imagine you suggesting a private business adopts a 'unique' or 'risky' business approach...i'm not sure of the risk but can definitely say that globally, it's not the business model for pay tv...
Very few markets have standard decoders, i can't name one, but i can tell you that UEC produces decoders for Australia, south america and obviously SA to specific broadcaster requirements....similiar with Pace, know they PACE HD PVR was launched in the digiturk market but then continued development to multichoice requirements...so my only response is, if it worked, companies would use it, it's definitely cheapre to buy a standard generic product than pay for custom products....just something to consider, DStv is really a content provider...it finds content, packages it and sells it...the decoder is just a platform to manage access and sales of the content (video)...and have no vested interest other than that in decoder sales....
So Dstv couldn't just use one of the standard Pace hd pvr decoders? They all support irdeto. but then they woulnt have the encryption that the dstv one has. and we know the lengths dstv is going to to shut the door after the horse has bolted.... thats the "continued development to multichoice requirements" you speak of.
Edit: I forgot about the ability to prevent me from using the pvr functionality I paid for remotely...
Bleh
Edit: I forgot about the ability to prevent me from using the pvr functionality I paid for remotely...
Bleh
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@madman : The systems that support a specific functionality has huge cost and knowledge implications, you can't just change from IRDETO to <one of the other encryption vendors, so yes, that would be a requirement...don't know who, but i know there's at least 3 or 4), so yes, that would be a requirement...not sure how many other broadcasters use 3 or 4 satellites, but that might be another reason for specific requirements(Multichoice has a broacast that vertically covers 70-80% of the globe to various markets) ...another would be regulatory, for e.g. if parental guidance blocking a regulatory factor in SA but not in a central african country or internationally, then obviously you need specific requirements.
Sorry, i don't get your 2nd point about the recording...can you re-phrase or clarify...
Sorry, i don't get your 2nd point about the recording...can you re-phrase or clarify...
I don't think this applies to DSTV service. If you sell a physical product like a Mercedes, then yes, but DSTV is selling a service. I still think bigger volume sales (at a lower price), would be better for them and us.
Edit: I was reading your post again, you say reduces your product to a commodity. Commodity = product/service/goods/article of trade. That part doesn't make sense to me. So you are saying that selling in volumes reduces your product to a article of trade? Am I missing something?
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I paid for the decoder, correct? The hardware belongs to me. In fact I paid 4K for the decoder instead of buying another kind of pvr.
Now if I decide to end my subscription with MC, can I watch the stuff I recorded, as I would be able to on any other pvr? No, infact: I cannot use any of the pvr functionality on fta channels should I so choose to unless I first pay the dstv subscription.
Conclusion: I have paid 4K for a peice of equipment that I am now actually renting from MC.
Clear enough?
Edit: That poses a question: Is there anyway for me to gain that functionality by flashing or modding the decoder? I'm not talking about getting free dstv. I'm talking about using it as a pure pvr. No decoder function?
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you can't watch PVR'ed stuff you recorded if you cancel your subscription? :wtf:
if you look at that you can see multichoice are greedy.....seriously
I hope ODM will let people subscribe due to affordable and friendly service, and not by FORCING YOU, by limiting each and every thing they can (pay for HD, pay for dual view, pay for PVR functionality, pay through the nose for Decoders, etc, etc)
if you look at that you can see multichoice are greedy.....seriously
I hope ODM will let people subscribe due to affordable and friendly service, and not by FORCING YOU, by limiting each and every thing they can (pay for HD, pay for dual view, pay for PVR functionality, pay through the nose for Decoders, etc, etc)
Kloofvreter
Honorary Master
The_Pumpkin_King
Jedi Master
Lemon works for Multichoice/Naspers 
More are signing up than cancelling
no doubt about that, but that doesn't mean their prices are the best they can be, for MAXIMUM sign ups & profit - that only means they have a monopoly
if you are a monopoly you will make money no matter how much you charge and how crap the service actually is (think telkom, eskom, multichoice) because there is always people who will pay for it - we can't live without it.
but what i'm saying, is,
isn't it just better to get more of the country paying a few bucks, than a few paying a small country
WIN-WIN Situation
For DSTV:
- more subscribers = more money
- more viewers = more money for advertising, too
- EASIER to compete with the coming of ODM Satellite TV, since the price difference wouldn't be as Big (VERY IMPORTANT)
For us:
- We don't complain so much, and are more loyal, since it is a cheapish service
- We don't feel ripped off and angry
- More poor people of South Africa can get to watch Proper TV, not just the rich.
- More Education across our Nation
I can't see why they are not doing it this way?!? :erm: :erm: :wtf: :erm: :erm:
arf9999
MyBroadband Member
That is only partially true. The largest cost for Multichoice is the rights for the content. These rights are charged based n the size of the audience, so if multichoice has more subscribers, they pay more for the content.
Sad, but true.
Nerfherder
Honorary Master
Well I was going to sign up.
But since I decided to boycott Naspers as much as possible I have managed to hold out and the urge has past. 6k will to my overseas holiday this year.
But since I decided to boycott Naspers as much as possible I have managed to hold out and the urge has past. 6k will to my overseas holiday this year.