Thousands arrested for drugs: Cops

Raptor you are talking complete and utter nonsense, crime line was setup to stop crime, whether you or i like it drugs are illegal. The cops are just doing their jobs according to the law of the land and they are arresting murderers and rapists.

You guys act like cops sit around eating donuts all day. I see patrols all over randburg. Yes there may be more pressing matters but should the entire police force focus on 50 murders? So let's take 50000 police offers to deal with 50 murders without any knowledge of when they will go down and where. Makes sense i guess. How do you know when they get called about a drug related crime, they ignore the murder that just went down? I understand what you are saying but i honestly cannot see how an entire police force can predict rapes and murders and i highly doubt we need the entire police force to arrive at a murder scene.

Logically what you are saying makes no sense, you can bet when a murder or rape goes down the cops react but certainly you won't find the entire randburg police force at the scene.
 
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killadoob said:
Raptor you are talking complete and utter nonsense, crime line was setup to stop crime, whether you or i like it drugs are illegal. The cops are just doing their jobs according to the law of the land and they are arresting murderers and rapists.

You guys act like cops sit around eating donuts all day. I see patrols all over randburg. Yes there may be more pressing matters but should the entire police force focus on 50 murders? So let's take 50000 police offers to deal with 50 murders without any knowledge of when they will go down and where. Makes sense i guess. How do you know when they get called about a drug related crime, they ignore the murder that just went down? I understand what you are saying but i honestly cannot see how an entire police force can predict rapes and murders and i highly doubt we need the entire police force to arrive at a murder scene.

Logically what you are saying makes no sense, you can bet when a murder or rape goes down the cops react but certainly you won't find the entire randburg police force at the scene.
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You're the tinfoil hat guy who believes in global climate change conspiracies etc. right?
Point. mute.
 
RaptorSA said:
You're the tinfoil hat guy who believes in global climate change conspiracies etc. right?
Point. mute.
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Conspiracies, nope. I don't believe anything because i don't know without a doubt so it could be man made it could the sun/solar storm. Don't really know. May i ask what that has to do with my post though? I understand it challenges your thoughts but you are saying our entire police force should sit around waiting for that rape or murder and ignore other crimes. There is job is to enforce the law, whether we like the laws or not they have a duty to uphold them.

I said i understand your point but if we had a few cops then yes but we have a large police force and i cannot see how they could be stopping murder and rape instead of dealing with tips from crime line, crystal ball?
 
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killadoob said:
Conspiracies, nope. I don't believe anything because i don't know without a doubt so it could be man made it could the sun/solar storm. Don't really know. May i ask what that has to do with my post though? I understand it challenges your thoughts but you are saying our entire police force should sit around waiting for that rape or murder and ignore other crimes. There is job is to enforce the law, whether we like the laws or not they have a duty to uphold them.
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Higher visibility in crime hot spots.
Farm patrols.
Border patrols.
Passport checks.

Anything that helps get the violence off the streets.
 
AstroTurf said:
Higher visibility in crime hot spots.
Farm patrols.
Border patrols.
Passport checks.

Anything that helps get the violence off the streets.
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Do you know what would help get violence off the streets? The courts ensuring bail is denied and to stop the corruption that sets rapists and murderers free. Look at oscar, he will walk purely because he has money. This is how violent criminals are treated. If they have the money they walk/get bail.

For the cops, they arrest a guy for murder, court date gets bail trial and the evidence is missing. Guy walks out. How do cops stop that?
 
killadoob said:
Do you know what would help get violence off the streets? The courts ensuring bail is denied and to stop the corruption that sets rapists and murderers free. Look at oscar, he will walk purely because he has money. This is how violent criminals are treated. If they have the money they walk/get bail.

For the cops, they arrest a guy for murder, court date and evidence is missing. Guy walks out. How do cops stop that?
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That just adds to another problem, the amount of awaiting-trial prisoners who get sucked into even worse crime while they're waiting for their trials. Even if they're innocent the people get screwed over. First time offenders and people who actually have a chance at rehabilitation also get screwed.

It's a disaster on all fronts.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
It's a disaster on all fronts.
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Sums it up nicely.

Corrupt Cops
Corrupt Courts
Corrupt Government

A war that cannot be won and turns civilians into the enemy and the victim whilst directly profiting terrorists and gangsters.
 
killadoob said:
Do you know what would help get violence off the streets? The courts ensuring bail is denied and to stop the corruption that sets rapists and murderers free. Look at oscar, he will walk purely because he has money. This is how violent criminals are treated. If they have the money they walk/get bail.

For the cops, they arrest a guy for murder, court date gets bail trial and the evidence is missing. Guy walks out. How do cops stop that?
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Crime prevention is far greater than improving the methods and measures used to prosecute criminals. By that point, due process has already failed a large proportion of them.
 
Maverick Jester said:
Crime prevention is far greater than improving the methods and measures used to prosecute criminals. By that point, due process has already failed a large proportion of them.
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So you believe a murderer or rapist walking, is not a problem? Well i think denying bail and convicting the person has prevented that person committing more crime. Chances are he is going to do what? One of the two again. Had he been put away that is crime prevention. Guys i am not talking about okes caught with a gram of coke or kat or whatever. I'm talking about hardened criminals, breaking into houses, hijacking, murdering, raping. Deny bail, stop the docket/evidence either going missing or being tampered with so that the defense can say the cops never did their job properly.

Crime prevention? How do you do that, let's take hijackings as an example. How would you go about preventing a hijacking? Now let's use another example. That hijacker was released on bail a week ago. So you have more chance of preventing crime by keeping criminals locked up instead of giving them bail. Bring back the death penalty. Convicted, appeal fails take the person and prevent him ever doing horrific things again. You also send out a strong message. In my opinion when the court system fails the cops are fked. Send a clear message, if you murder you will be killed within 6 months. Give the cops reward for capturing a murderer, don't release him on bail.

Look i am all for crime prevention but i just cannot see how you can prevent criminal activity that is out of control. How do you prevent a house robbery, hijacking, rape and murder?
 
killadoob said:
So you believe a murderer or rapist walking, is not a problem? Well i think denying bail and convicting the person has prevented that person committing more crime. Chances are he is going to do what? One of the two again. Had he been put away that is crime prevention. Guys i am not talking about okes caught with a gram of coke or kat or whatever. I'm talking about hardened criminals, breaking into houses, hijacking, murdering, raping. Deny bail, stop the docket/evidence either going missing or being tampered with so that the defense can say the cops never did their job properly.

Crime prevention? How do you do that, let's take hijackings as an example. How would you go about preventing a hijacking? Now let's use another example. That hijacker was released on bail a week ago. So you have more chance of preventing crime by keeping criminals locked up instead of giving them bail. Bring back the death penalty. Convicted, appeal fails take the person and prevent him ever doing horrific things again. You also send out a strong message. In my opinion when the court system fails the cops are fked. Send a clear message, if you murder you will be killed within 6 months. Give the cops reward for capturing a murderer, don't release him on bail.
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What you are ignoring, is that the law system in this country is fundamentally broken. Changing aspects to fix some problems will not solve the real problem.

So let's say that rapists and murderers are denied bail, as an example. This causes further overcrowding in prisons, and with the delays found in the court system, this could be a perpetually running situation. This in turn, forces criminals arrested for serious crimes, to have to share quarters with minor offenders- drunk drivers, shoplifters, people who refused to bribe cops, etc. I'm sure I don't need to explain why this is a bad thing? South Africa already has an exceedingly low rate of criminal rehabilitation, and you want to drop it further?

Changing only one aspect of the current judicial process, whilst ignoring the many, many other problems within our justice system as a whole, is extremely shortsighted at best. It's at a point where the best recourse is to actively prevent crime, not leave it until the crime is already under judgement to correct.

Look i am all for crime prevention but i just cannot see how you can prevent criminal activity that is out of control. How do you prevent a house robbery, hijacking, rape and murder?
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Simple in the basic idea- take away the reasons that people commit crimes over in the first place. We have really high rates of rape, robbery and murder in this country- given the societal inequalities that we face, allied to a greedy, corrupt and apathetic government, is it any wonder as to why those crimes are so common amongst the poor and disempowered?
 
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They should do this in Mitchell's Plain and Bonteheuwel...
 
Maverick Jester said:
What you are ignoring, is that the law system in this country is fundamentally broken. Changing aspects to fix some problems will not solve the real problem.

So let's say that rapists and murderers are denied bail, as an example. This causes further overcrowding in prisons, and with the delays found in the court system, this could be a perpetually running situation. This in turn, forces criminals arrested for serious crimes, to have to share quarters with minor offenders- drunk drivers, shoplifters, people who refused to bribe cops, etc. I'm sure I don't need to explain why this is a bad thing? South Africa already has an exceedingly low rate of criminal rehabilitation, and you want to drop it further?

Changing only one aspect of the current judicial process, whilst ignoring the many, many other problems within our justice system as a whole, is extremely shortsighted at best. It's at a point where the best recourse is to actively prevent crime, not leave it until the crime is already under judgement to correct.



Simple in the basic idea- take away the reasons that people commit crimes over in the first place. We have really high rates of rape, robbery and murder in this country- given the societal inequalities that we face, allied to a greedy, corrupt and apathetic government, is it any wonder as to why those crimes are so common amongst the poor and disempowered?
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No just because someone is poor does not mean they want to murder and rape. Sick people. Robbery fine, hijacking without live ammunition sure but why kill or rape the females while you rob the house, sorry poverty does not create that kind of sickness.

Maverick you have made my exact point from the start, blaming the cops for doing their job is silly, whether we believe drugs should legalized or not they are forced to enforce the laws. Fix the court issues and some laws and maybe it would help yes. You spoke about over crowding well if people were being killed for their crimes it would lighten the load. I wonder what % of people in jail are murderers?
 
killadoob said:
No just because someone is poor does not mean they want to murder and rape. Sick people. Robbery fine, hijacking without live ammunition sure but why kill or rape the females while you rob the house, sorry poverty does not create that kind of sickness.

Maverick you have made my exact point from the start, blaming the cops for doing their job is silly, whether we believe drugs should legalized or not they are forced to enforce the laws. Fix the court issues and some laws and maybe it would help yes. You spoke about over crowding well if people were being killed for their crimes it would lighten the load. I wonder what % of people in jail are murderers?
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Why do you keep nitpicking at the irrelevant, and not address the actual point?

I used arbitrary examples to highlight that simply changing one aspect of the criminal justice system (thanks, Orbital) will not solve either the crime problem nor the inefficiency that we face in dealing with it.
 
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