Today's imminent Darwin award candidate...

The placebo effect shows that the body can respond as if it had taken a drug even when it hasn't so it does seem possible to treat the symptoms of illness and perhaps even illness itself without anything but the mind
 
joelus said:
[-]The placebo effect[/-] Homeopathy shows that the body can respond as if it had taken a drug even when it hasn't so it does seem possible to treat the symptoms of illness and perhaps even illness itself without anything but the mind
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:/
 
Warm honey works better for me than any other cough mixture on the shelf.
 
joelus said:
The placebo effect shows that the body can respond as if it had taken a drug even when it hasn't so it does seem possible to treat the symptoms of illness and perhaps even illness itself without anything but the mind
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This is HIV dude, not the common cold. It actively destroys your immune system. What do you propose your mind will use as an army to fight the HIV?
 
joelus said:
erm no. Homeopathy shows that people are gullible and gullibility can increase or enhance the placebo effect.
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Don't disagree. Was merely showing that Homeopathy is well... a placebo effect. Was just borrowing your words.
 
porchrat said:
This is HIV dude, not the common cold. It actively destroys your immune system. What do you propose your mind will use as an army to fight the HIV?
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Some people see their CD4 count drop to under 200 within a few years of infection, while others people can go for 10 years and longer so obviously the body is able to live with HIV
 
joelus said:
Some people see their CD4 count drop to under 200 within a few years of infection, while others people can go for 10 years and longer so obviously the body is able to live with HIV
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See this is where this garbage settles in, with statements like this we open the door to the lunatics.

No dude, the body can't live with HIV. Yes some people live healthier lives or just have a naturally stronger immune system or a less virulent strain of the virus or they don't constantly reinfect themselves with reckless behaviour and so they last longer. That doesn't mean they are curing themselves with their minds. For fscks sake. Again I ask if HIV is actively destroying the immune system what do these "I'm curing it with my mind" nutters propose is being used by their minds to combat the virus... unicorn farts?


MartyMarts said:
Your statement is invalid if you drink lots of water with your sugar pills :p
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Well we can drink more water with the homeopathy stuff which should dilute it even more and thus make it even stronger while at the same time rehydrating us even more than the sugar pills! Checkmate Big Pharma!!
 
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porchrat said:
See this is where this garbage settles in, with statements like this we open the door to the lunatics.

No dude, the body can't live with HIV. Yes some people live healthier lives or just have a naturally stronger immune system or a less virulent strain of the virus and so they last longer. That doesn't mean they are curing themselves with their minds. For fscks sake. Again I ask if HIV is actively destroying the immune system what do these "I'm curing it with my mind" nutters propose is being used by their minds to combat the virus... unicorn farts?
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I never said they are curing themselves with their minds. I said it's possible to live with HIV and not get sick and it's possible that the placebo effect can assist this. We don't know why some people succumb quickly and others can live with it for years - that some people live healthier lives or just have a naturally stronger immune system or a less virulent strain of the virus is just speculation. We do know that a persons beliefs and lifestyles can effect their immune system, both positively and negatively and so yes, it's quite possible that the right state of mind and healthy living can allow one to live with HIV longer than they would if they had a ****ty state of mind and lived unhealthier lives. We don't really have a clear understanding of how the placebo effect works, but we know it does
 
porchrat said:
Well we can drink more water with the homeopathy stuff which should dilute it even more and thus make it even stronger while at the same time rehydrating us even more than the sugar pills! Checkmate Big Pharma!!
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Damn... I didn't think of that!

/makes note to drink more water when smoking herb for stronger effect
 
joelus said:
I never said they are curing themselves with their minds. I said it's possible to live with HIV and not get sick
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Not as far as I know.


and it's possible that the placebo effect can assist this.
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Placebo is going ot give you temporary relief, not solve the problem. Without medication you are eventually going to get sick and die.


We don't know why some people succumb quickly and others can live with it for years
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There are many known reasons for this.


- that some people live healthier lives or just have a naturally stronger immune system or a less virulent strain of the virus is just speculation.
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No. it isn't. We know that good nutrition and exercise stimulate production and maintenance of immune cells, not speculated, known. We know that some strains of the virus are more potent than others, not speculated, known. We know that reckless behaviours resulting in reinfection accelerate the degeneration, again not speculated, known. We know that simultaneous infection with both HIV and TB is a synergistic relationship, again not speculated, known. Don't extend your ignorance to the entirety of humanity.


We do know that a persons beliefs and lifestyles can effect their immune system, both positively and negatively and so yes, it's quite possible that the right state of mind and healthy living can allow one to live with HIV longer than they would if they had a ****ty state of mind and lived unhealthier lives. We don't really have a clear understanding of how the placebo effect works, but we know it does
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You've moved from "it's possible to live with HIV and not get sick" to "live with HIV longer" in one post. Congrats, it takes real dedication to switch the goalposts mid-post.
 
porchrat said:
Not as far as I know.



Placebo is going ot give you temporary relief, not solve the problem. Without medication you are eventually going to get sick and die.



There are many known reasons for this.



No. it isn't. We know that good nutrition and exercise stimulate production and maintenance of immune cells, not speculated, known. We know that some strains of the virus are more potent than others, not speculated, known. We know that reckless behaviours resulting in reinfection accelerate the degeneration, again not speculated, known. We know that simultaneous infection with both HIV and TB is a synergistic relationship, again not speculated, known. Don't extend your ignorance to the entirety of humanity.



You've moved from "it's possible to live with HIV and not get sick" to "live with HIV longer" in one post. Congrats, it takes real dedication to switch the goalposts mid-post.
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Actually I said http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthr...-candidate?p=13787601&viewfull=1#post13787601
Some people see their CD4 count drop to under 200 within a few years of infection, while others people can go for 10 years and longer so obviously the body is able to live with HIV
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I never said anything about cure or indefinitely - just that people can live longer with it. Congrats, it takes real dedication to create strawmen
 
joelus said:
Actually I said http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthr...-candidate?p=13787601&viewfull=1#post13787601

I never said anything about cure or indefinitely - just that people can live longer with it. Congrats, it takes real dedication to create strawmen
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You said the body is able to live with it. It isn't. You will get sick and you will die. No amount of good vibes are going to prevent that.

Heck you even repeated it:
joelus said:
I never said they are curing themselves with their minds. I said it's possible to live with HIV and not get sick and it's possible that the placebo effect can assist this.
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All people respond slightly differently to all diseases because, NEWS FLASH, we are all genetically unique individuals in a large dynamic population and the diseases we get are also genetically unique in a dynamic population. (OMG NEWS AT 11!)
 
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porchrat said:
You said the body is able to live with it. It isn't. You will get sick and you will die. No amount of good vibes are going to prevent that.
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The body is able to live with it for 10 years and longer.
State of mind and beliefs can assist this or thwart it.
Everyone will die eventually, no amount of good vibes are going to prevent that.
 
joelus said:
The body is able to live with it for 10 years and longer.
State of mind and beliefs can assist this or thwart it.
Everyone will die eventually, no amount of good vibes are going to prevent that.
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That last statement is ambiguous and considering your past statements like "it's possible to live with HIV and not get sick" (which is bullschit) I need to ask you to state explicitly that you are saying that pretty much everyone who contracts HIV and doesn't take ARVs is going to develop AIDS, pick up secondary infections, and die as a result of those regardless of their state of mind. (this is of course discounting the guys that get hit by cars and such)
 
joelus said:
The body is able to live with it for 10 years and longer.
State of mind and beliefs can assist this or thwart it.
Everyone will die eventually, no amount of good vibes are going to prevent that.
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valar morghulis :D
 
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