Toddler raped, killed, dumped

porchrat said:
There is indeed a lot in our history that we shouldn't be proud of. Conversely though there is a lot that we should be proud of. The use of the word "anything" is perhaps a little strong.

I like to think I am not capable of this sort of act.
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I don't think there is anything inherently 'good' (or bad, for that matter) in any of us. We are the products of our surroundings and experiences for the most part I reckon.
 
copacetic said:
We are the products of our surroundings and experiences
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Tell that to the psychopathic children out there that beat their siblings to death and don't understand why it is wrong.

I don't think we can underestimate the power of genetics.
 
porchrat said:
Perhaps you are just not as naive as I am. I think I just really hate the idea that people are capable of this sort of thing so I try to ignore it.

I do believe though that the minority of people are actually capable of this sort of thing and that they really ought to be locked up.
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A tiny minority. Not even 0.001% I would suggest. The person who could do such a thing is clearly mentally disturbed and in no way representative of South Africans. But yes they must be caughty as soon as possible and put away from society.
 
porchrat said:
What right do you have to take someone's life away in retaliation for that individual taking someone else's life?

Two wrongs don't make a right. The individual does need to be separated from society though.
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funnily enough, it has to do with the sanctity and preservation of life. Murderers must be permanently removed from society, the families are owed the highest form of retributive punishment of the offender and a message is sent out that life is sacred and offenders will be dealt with harshly. You take a life... you lose your own right to life. Simple.
 
nightjar said:
If the murderer is ever caught and turns out to be HIV positive he will claim he did it to cure himself.
Raping virgins, killing witches & muti murders are part of the culture.

Tell me where any cases have ever come to court, let alone resulted in a conviction.
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Part of what culture ? What culture of South Africa has any of these things as 'part of their culture" ? That's an incredibly ignorant and offensive statement but I would allow it if it had any basis in reality. Who are these people that rape babies as part of their culture ? It's a terrible thing to have happened but don't hijack this event to be a bigot.

Regarding conviction I wouldn't know. Has anyone followed up ?
 
Garyvdh said:
funnily enough, it has to do with the sanctity and preservation of life. Murderers must be permanently removed from society, the families are owed the highest form of retributive punishment of the offender and a message is sent out that life is sacred and offenders will be dealt with harshly. You take a life... you lose your own right to life. Simple.
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There are more civilised ways to remove a murderer from society than lowering ourselves to his/her level.

It has nothing to do with sanctity of life. Those who regard life as truly sacred won't lower themselves to killing someone in some sort of attempt at vengeance. Those who regard it as truly sacred will realise that, yes this person has done something terrible, but that individual is still human and we have no right to take that person's life away.
 
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porchrat said:
Good point. Didn't give that part the attention it deserved.

I still think genetics plays a larger role than you give it credit for though.
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To be honest, I am not sure where I stand on this issue. It's kind of hard to figure it out because our societies are so ****ed, it's difficult to know where the trouble might actually stem from. I think though, people get terribly upset at extra horrific killings, as opposed to gang killings, or what have you - But to me, a murder is a murder. I mean in societies where the general populace bay for retributive blood, are we really surprised to have ruthless savages in our midst?

No doubt though that there are indeed people who are fundamentally broken from the inside, but I am sure they are in the minority.
 
porchrat said:
Good point. Didn't give that part the attention it deserved.

I still think genetics plays a larger role than you give it credit for though.
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Depends what you're talking about. In your potential height, weight etc it plays a big role second to environment. But human beings have extremely complicated motives as to why we do things and the gross majority of our behaviours are learned from the data we take in from our socialisation. You can alter someones genetics and get a different result in the type of phsyical human being you would have produced. But the hugest influence on what kind of individual that human being will end up is his environment and socialisation. Take two individual of every different genes but similiar attractiveness/ability and put them in two very different social circumstances grow them up and check the results. Go back in time swop them around and do it again and you will get very similar results in what kind of person you have socialised. (in the bigger sense..I mean..will he be a criminal or a werll adjusted indivudual etc.) The incentives of healthy social relationships far outway any urges our genes potential can predispose us to. The less these incentives of "earning your parents/teachers/boss respect/partners love" etc etc exist the more likely the individual is to act out any predisposition to any form of undisirable behaviour. The more they exist the more likely he will resist the urges to act out on anthing biology is suggesting for him.
 
warwickw said:
There is no punishment strong enough that you can give this person(s), not event he death penalty will do.
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Sloooow sloooow torture, let everything heal... and start all over again. For eternity.

Mephisto_Helix said:
It's not WC related so the suspect/s won't get caught as speedily ......... actually, hopefully the police don't catch him/them at all, hopefully a mob does :mad:
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+10
 
copacetic said:
We are the products of our surroundings and experiences for the most part I reckon.
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Sounds like when Staggie (Cape Flats drug dealer/gangster/all round baddie-turned preacher said "Apartheid made me what I am today"
 
porchrat said:
Tell that to the psychopathic children out there that beat their siblings to death and don't understand why it is wrong.

I don't think we can underestimate the power of genetics.
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last time i checked, there were no conclusive evidence that psychopathy is a genetic condition.

"The often charming - but always deadly- individuals have a clinical name: psychopaths. The hallmark is a stunning lack of conscience; their game is self-gratification at the other person's expense" Robert D Hare Phd

psychopaths can discern between right and wrong: they lack a conscience; they have no empathy for their victims. even when a grown-up psychopath learned in different ways that it is wrong to hurt others or to take what belong to others, they don't care and they never will (until a cure is found!)

you make it sound like the psychopath has no control over their actions, which is not totally correct.

the problem with psychopathy is that clinical intervention makes it worse: psychopaths gain new insight into human behaviour, between what is acceptable and what not. tragically they leave psychotherapy with an arsenal of new ideas with which they can lure their victims.

you suggest in a later response that there are more humane ways of removing murderers from society. while i respect the sanctity of a human life, keep in mind that to date there is no cure for psychopaths: they are highly dangerous people.

why must society support or feel empathy for these ruthless criminals?
 
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Fusking getting tired of reading these horrific threads. If the fusking useless government is to stupid to bring back the DP then it is time for the public to start taking the law into it's own hands. I have never condoned vigilantism but damn it, children are dying and worse and the government seem unable to do anything to stop it. The molly codling of criminals isjust the stupidest thing ever, they don't need a psychologist they need a bullet.
 
on some level i think that a long term jail sentence is far worse than the death penalty.

but my problem with sentencing hardened criminals to jail, is that we - the tax payers - sustain them.
jailed criminals seem to have more opportunities and benefits than the majority of law abiding citizens in this country.
 
sister said:
on some level i think that a long term jail sentence is far worse than the death penalty.

but my problem with sentencing hardened criminals to jail, is that we - the tax payers - sustain them.
jailed criminals seem to have more opportunities and benefits than the majority of law abiding citizens in this country.
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Don't kid yourself though, that the death penalty is cheaper.
 
Ronjay said:
Fusking getting tired of reading these horrific threads. If the fusking useless government is to stupid to bring back the DP then it is time for the public to start taking the law into it's own hands. I have never condoned vigilantism but damn it, children are dying and worse and the government seem unable to do anything to stop it. The molly codling of criminals isjust the stupidest thing ever, they don't need a psychologist they need a bullet.
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Well when one gang of vigilantes kills someone, then another gang of vigilantes will have to kill that gang. And so on. Sooner or later vigilantes kill the wrong people. Even the judicial system cannot get it right, so how can a mob out for blood?

What are some people drinking that makes them think the death penalty is some magical cure? Are they going to shut up when it doesn't make any real difference? Or are they then going to moan about the monumental costs involved and the even more congested court system?
 
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