Tshwane statue painted last night!

ajak said:
You dont know half of it.Have you had a chance to look at some web sites that have just opened or read thru blogs
http://www.crimexposouthafrica.co.za/
http://www.southafricaiscrap.blogspot.com/
You may not agree with all of this,but it shows the tension.

It's difficult looking "in from the outside" - but I have family over there.

There's different points of view from every spectrum, there will ALWAYS be positive and negative views, what counts is the balance between the two.

You could take the news here in the UK and sow it negative - very easy to do - or you could take the positive side and praise it, or, be wise and take the balance of the two.

In the UK, for instance, you could say that Knife crime has reached such scary proportions, that we're all under threat from "young thugs", or you could say "it's a tiny minority" - depends which side you look at it from.

What is clear, is that violent crime is on the rise in the UK, the difference is, we basically have what is bordering on a "police state" over here, or what many refer to as a "nanny state", where civil liberties are forsaken to "protect" civilians.

It reaches a point where you need permission to have a public gathering of more than 10 people.

Regarding the defacing of that statue - it points to a very real issue in South Africa - although it may be no more than a silly prank by a bunch of Uni students in Pretoria (most likely the case) - it does touch on the very real issue of racial problems.

Here in the UK, that issue is currently the Muslim equation. It just won't resolve itself and is spiraling out of control, so the civil liberties noose tightens and everyone is a little less "free"

I guess you can't have it both ways - a totally open free society seems to be one which is plagued by crime, to curb crime, you tighten up the freedom - it's a balancing act that is so easy to get wrong.

I will admit that I haven't felt this secure in my home for many many years - I leave my windows open at night and during the day and have nothing but a simple yale lock on my front door. I have no burglar bars, no alarm. There's no security companies driving up and down the road.

But then, I live in the countryside. In big cities, there's a huge theft problem and violent incidents are on the increase.

Back to the statue incident - I can see both sides of this and I actually think the defacing of that statue is, in some ways, a correct reaction to the shortsighted arrogant reason to put a statue of that nature up in the first place.

Whatever happened to reconciliation?
Whatever happened to "the rainbow nation"?

Why not a statue representing the rebirth of a nation?
How about a statue which represents EVERYONE in the country?

You see, the knee-jerk reaction to that statue, has been the painting of the old SA flag onto it.

It's a crass thing to do, but very powerful and extremely dangerous. It sends out lots of mixed messages - the "honeymoon" period is dead and buried and the racial issues haven't been resolved at all. They were brushed under the carpet for a brief time, but now loom larger than ever.

Hey, it's one of the reasons I left ... :D
 
bb_matt said:
Well guys, this is just social action at work - it happens all over the world, there's nothing new here.

It shows a typical social disagreement and is more disturbing than you could imagine really.

The whole idea of this statue is rather scary, as it's actually "inventing" history - it's fake.

The current SA government is taking some leaves out of the Communist book - it's borders on rewriting history to inspire the majority.

The graffitti on the statue sends out a very clear message - a minority group is not happy with the state of affairs in Pretoria, which in a way, indicates that the ANC isn't doing what they promised!

They are starting to do EXACTLY what the NP did during Apartheid - glorifying a racial group.

The right thing to do, would've been a statue which represents ALL of the cultures and races of South Africa, not just one.

The writing is on the wall folks - forces at work within Government are starting to repeat the mistakes of the past - as we know, Johannesburg International is probabably going to be renamed - Oliver Tambo.

So, we go from Jan Smuts, to Johannesburg International, to Oliver Tambo.

I suppose the real difference is that instead of a minority dominating a majority, it will be a majoritiy dominating.

I've no idea really - I'm losing track of the happenings in SA - one thing I do know, to ostrasise the minority groups in SA is a BIG mistake - this is not a Zimbabwe situation, the minority (White, Coloured, Indian) is not an insignificant force.

The ANC have lied when it comes down to it, once again ...

http://www.mg.co.za/articlepage.aspx?area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__national/&articleid=277542
As usual, good post bb_matt
Missed your posts lately. :)

Compared to Zimbabwe which had a couple of hundred thousand white people, South Africa's minority groups comprise many millions of people, most of which are educated and have some form of employment, probably contributing more than 80 to 90% of the taxes generated in this country. The whites and coloured folks go back for several hundreds of years in our history and are well entrenched.
My own personal family has absolutely no connection to England/Germany any more, other than a Genealogy trail through old church records.

The minority groups do not seem to get acknowledgement for the monetary contributions that we make, that keeps this country alive in taxes.
Not only do we keep South Africa liquid, but countries like Zimbabwe and several other African nations share also in the bounty of South African Taxpayer's money, in some sort of charitable, I will repay you when I can sort of arrangement.
Isn't it quite remarkable that 5 to 10% of the population of South Africa that actually pay taxes keep this whole thing together.

One doesn't want to be pessimistic, but at this rate of "transformation" hardly any of the old names will be part of the New South Africa.
One can hear from your tone bb_matt that you are distancing yourself a bit as you settle to life in your new abode. Well why not. We have only one life that we know of and we should try and enjoy it to the full.

South African politicians are focusing on cr@p. People want jobs and with this money to buy food and homes.

What I find is a pity is that a remarkable statesman like Jan Smuts whose name was on JIA before, was replaced with a neutral name by the ANC and we were all led to believe this to be the best for the country as places like Airports should not bear names of political persona's.
Now 10 years later the ANC wish to change the Airport back to a political name, bearing a persons name.
That is wrong. Can we believe anything they tell us?
So your statement claiming that they lied is indeed accurate.
You lie once, you can lie again.
 
I thought this was all about a statue of Mandela or something; now that I look at the picture of the statue - how puerile is that? Just love the classic greek columns in the background. Now that I look at it: if there was ever an anc agenda surely that statue is it. Pretoria is a long way away, can't say I pay a lot of attention - but Tshwane now seems the default name - renamed by stealth - so sad.

Mayoral committee member Absalom Ditshoke conducted the unveiling as members of the Royal Tshwane household Tshwane looked on.

Ditshoke stood in for Tshwane mayor Gwen Ramokgopa whose name is engraved on the base of the statue as the one who did the unveiling.

Ramokgopa was away on a trip to Germany for the Soccer World Cup final.

The almost R1-million price tag of the statue caused controversy from the outset. There were also differences of opinion on whether a Chief Tshwane ever existed

Adding fuel to the fire, was a request by Ramokgopa in May for the statue to replace that of former Zuid-Afrikaanse Republic President Paul Kruger on Church Square.

Chief Tshwane stands only a few metres away from statues of former ZAR President Marthinus Wessel Pretorius and his father Andries, after whom Pretoria was named.

A note at the bottom of President Pretorius statue claims 1855 as the date the Voortrekkers founded the city and named it.

An engraving at the base Chief Tshwane's statue says it was through his "existence our city origin and history sprung."

A proposal that the city of Pretoria also be named Tshwane is still being considered by Arts and Culture Minister Pallo Jordan.
July 06 2006

and... (thanks werner) - was interesting: some countries haven't experienced a murder or rape in 30+ years? - Don't see Sweden on either the rape list or the murder stats on nationmaster.com
 
Roy Munson said:
people who like Windows 5.1
*off topic* From where can I download Windows 5.1? I'm tired of Windows XP instability.
 
fantastic! nice to see somebody else disrespects tshwane! give them the disrespect they deserve!
 
someone creates this.. and the whole south african people have racisim to each other again probly some boer "seuns" that visited pretoria for a day Fu@#ing retards and their previous ancester boers!

it's them that creates these racisims ...
 
Aspersie you cant generalise and say all boere/afrikaans people are racist, even though its probably true :D But then most black people are also racist most of these slaughtering of farmers are also race related.

But

I agree its probably a bunch of students had a late night at hatfield and did what drunk people do. But the "them" dont create all this racism remember the retarded youth leagues protesting a while ago at tuks shouting one bullet one settler, but they werent racist in any way.
 
Aspersie said:
someone creates this.. and the whole south african people have racisim to each other again probly some boer "seuns" that visited pretoria for a day Fu@#ing retards and their previous ancester boers!

it's them that creates these racisims ...
What a Biitch hey!
 
I can see the connection between the attempt to ban the old flag and the paint on this statue. Neither action by the authorities was going to sit well with Pretorians. There is also no effective way for people to protest changes they see as unfair or unnecessary. Hence the reaction with the paint. Predictable?
 
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