UMTS Frequency Bands used on 8ta's network?

[solexxx]

Hi,

I was just wondering what UMTS frequency bands are being used on 8ta's network?

I've Googled this and the answer I got was a blend of 1800MHz & 2100Mhz.

Does this mean the 1800MHz band is used for HSUPA (High-Speed Uplink Packet Access) and the 2100MHz band for HSDPA (High Speed Downlink Packet Access)?

Is GSM/GPRS/EDGE also covered by the 1800MHz band?

Thanks,

 

[kwaggawerner]

Good question. I would also like to know, and the footprint, is 100% of 8ta's network GPRS/EDGE enabled?

 

[SteveO]

I am pretty sure its only 2100mhz for 3G/HS

1800 is for 2G only. Not sure there is Hardware for 3G/HS on 1800

 

[UnUnOctium]

One can deploy a UMTS network in 1800 as well. Not very common though (tends to be done in Australia & Oceania) as you'd need a country where GSM 1800 isn't widespread. If you know that they use 1800 and 2100, then I'd agree with SteveO. It's way more likely that they use 2100 only for HSPA and 1800 for GSM.

In terms of the duplexing, the bands are very big (anywhere from 40 to 80 MHz) for HSPA and there is no standard for out-of-band duplexing. The UL and DL duplexing is rather done in the band itself by either TDD (UMTS-TDD) or FDD (UMTS-FDD). Never heard of an out-of-band implementation of UMTS-FDD as you think.

 

[dj_jyno]

SteveO is correct. 1800 MHz for 2G, 2100 MHz for 3G. I don't think 8.ta will use a non-standard frequency for 3G, since the modems they offer do not support 1800 MHz UMTS.

 

[Jola]

What other UMTS frequencies do their modems support - do they support 900MHz - anyone tried them on Cell C ?

And the American frequencies, 850 and 1900 MHz ?

 

[CharlieSmith]

How do Telkom enable a tower/cell for 3G Voice, but not 3G Data, as being shown by the two different coverage maps for 3G Voice and 3G Data?

 

[Dolby]

So one operator use all bands depending on whether they use GPRS, EDGE, 3G and HSDPA?
Do data and voice use two separate frequencies?
Cell C is the only using 900mhz?

Basically - if I wanted to get get a booster overseas that worked here - what do I need to look at?

 

[sajunky]

What other UMTS frequencies do their modems support - do they support 900MHz - anyone tried them on Cell C ?

And the American frequencies, 850 and 1900 MHz ?

Some do work with Cell-C: 8ta E367, support 2100MHz and 900MHz.
No, only generic E367 are four-bands.

 

[sajunky]

So one operator use all bands depending on whether they use GPRS, EDGE, 3G and HSDPA?
Do data and voice use two separate frequencies?
Cell C is the only using 900mhz?

Generally SA operators use 900/1800MHz for voice and 2G data. 2100MHz is for UMTS only. Cell-C 900MHz for UMTS, but in some areas also 2100MHz. Other operators are looking towards 900MHz UMTS too.
With HSPA+ it can be voice too. Everything changes to all IP network.

Basically - if I wanted to get get a booster overseas that worked here - what do I need to look at?

Stealing ;-)

 

[Dolby]

Yea I just found out a booster is illegal :/

 

[UnUnOctium]

Yea I just found out a booster is illegal :/

It's not unless you're trying to make your own base-station or the power output is beyond legal limits for the band.

 

[SteveO]

Other operators are looking towards 900MHz UMTS too.
With HSPA+ it can be voice too. Everything changes to all IP network.

Both Vodacom and MTN have 900Mhz in use, only rural areas, where the real benefit of 900mhz is found ( in urban environments it creates too much noise = bad SNR)

In regard to voice on HSDPA, VoIP is not available on the networks officially, and HSPA does not have a voice component, well as far as I know there is no 3GPP standard. In IP backhaul the voice is seen as data over the IP link....

R99 (3G) has always had voice, however any operator would be wise to push all voice to 2G, quality is the same if not better.

VoIP will only really be seen when it is implemented under LTE Advanced. That said, even then I would rather push it down to 2G

 

[SteveO]

It's not unless you're trying to make your own base-station or the power output is beyond legal limits for the band.

If an operator finds that your device is compromising their network, they have every right to take legal action. Remember they pay for spectrum and have a right to be the only entity broadcasting on that channel, even if you are simply repeating their signal.

If they do take you to court it will be for loss of income, and this amount will be way past R1 million....

 

[sajunky]

@SteveO: Thank you for this information. Now we know why MTN and Vodacom sell 900MHz UMTS modems (now 8-ta).

In IP backhaul the voice is seen as data over the IP link....

I think I meant this above. It looks like it increases capacity of voice dramatically comparing to CS.

 

[sajunky]

Yea I just found out a booster is illegal :/

Recently I saw some repeater, blown by lightning. It was Remotek R19B-GD (dual band 900/1800MHz). It had two sets of dip switches for selecting download/upload frequencies for each band. Inside there were two sets of power splitters and microwave amplifiers, generic industrial Wavecom GPRS/EDGE modem with operator SIM card. I couldn't find user manual.
Aha, almost forgotten, there was also battery powered security device with its own transmitter (telling you just in the case of temptation)

 

[Tacet]

@SteveO: Thank you for this information. Now we know why MTN and Vodacom sell 900MHz UMTS modems (now 8-ta).

I think I meant this above. It looks like it increases capacity of voice dramatically comparing to CS.

The only reason 8ta doesn't roll out in 900 MHz is because they don't have spectrum in that band. Even in the city, it would be nice to roll out 900 MHz, as it penetrates buildings much better than 2.1 GHz. Their 2.1 GHz usage forces them to roll out smaller cells, which is better for the customer in terms of congestion, but it also pushes up the price of the network.

As for GSM and UMTS - your operators try to stick to the bands currently in use by the clients (if they have spectrum in that band). Imagine 8ta starting to roll out UMTS in 1800, and GSM in 2100. Most of the subscriber base in the country will have to get new handsets in order to use the network. Take the freq bands of the Nokia N8:
2G Network GSM 850 / 900 / 1800 / 1900
3G Network HSDPA 850 / 900 / 1700 / 1900 / 2100

In a network using 3G on 1800, it wouldn't work.

 

[SteveO]

The only reason 8ta doesn't roll out in 900 MHz is because they don't have spectrum in that band. Even in the city, it would be nice to roll out 900 MHz, as it penetrates buildings much better than 2.1 GHz. Their 2.1 GHz usage forces them to roll out smaller cells, which is better for the customer in terms of congestion, but it also pushes up the price of the network.

Yeah, this if fine when you first roll out, but for established networks cells need to be reduced in size to limit interference. if an operator is simply looking at 900mhz for inbuilding penetration then they are really looking at this wrong, they should rather be looking at smaller cells in urban areas and there is no case for 900 in this regard, 2100 + IBS should suffice.

 

[Tacet]

I'm not so sure. The same planning is applicable for a 900 MHz network than for a 2100 MHz network, so interference shouldn't be a larger concern on 900 MHz. You simply plan your cells further apart. In the city 900 MHz is a very nice interim solution until you can afford it to roll out smaller cells. If you plan properly you'll have multiband antennas on the masts, meaning that you'll only have to change the RRU. If I'm not mistaken, you might get away on changing only the modem card in some of the RRUs.

 

[UnUnOctium]

Thanks Tacet for saving my fingers the exercise