Uncapped ADSL – what does it mean?

Alan - I think you would agree that in the rest of the world, an uncapped accoutn is a fixed cost package where data transfer is limited by the speed of the line.

While in a technical sense the post paid account you speak of could be referred to as being uncapped, it is not what any person who is savy would regard as such.
 
BrianStephan said:
If u take it Telscum has had the monpoly for what 14-15 years now and I have a friend quiet high up in the ranks he says that a phone call in Mauritius
costs almost nothing where here in our own country we are paying through our back teeth for the same service and the list goes on and on also the reason y we havent seen any new Telcoms companies except for Neotel etc.. is that our last minister of Telecoms refused 35 to enter into the country at a personal level because she didnt want Telkom to lose its monopoly. Now tell me how on earth do us as consumers fight that we cant hence y we are so far behind everybody
Click to expand...

Makes you wonder where does the money go, Let your friend tell you if he has ever been to the big bosses house, i have been you'll then see where all the money goes.
 
MraL said:
Hi,

I'm responding as the person responsible for the R39 uncapped advert. I've been in the ISP business - providing access - for 15 years and I participate in various global forums for the governance of the Internet infrastructure.

My dictionary defines a cap in this context as: "an upper limit imposed on spending or other activities e.g. a cap on legal immigration". This is my understanding of the term and as an ISP we believe that the term cap is a swearword. It creates grief for people who need access but have been cut off because they reach their cap. It also has been a way for the big ISPs to convert customers and obtain revenue for bandwidth which is NOT used by the customer (i.e. when we started offering this product - almost three years ago - the average usage on a 3GB account at one of the largest ISPs was 1.1GB, in this case the ISP collected moneys for 3GB and pocketed the profits made when the customer only used 1.1).

I admit that our offering is different because we advise our customers to buy the 'least' amount of bandwidth that they use in order to make sure they are not paying for what they don't use (e..g in December most people go away and use a fraction of what they have paid for). This almost always works out cheaper for the customer and because we're delivering metered bandwidth we can afford to deliver the highest quality of bandwidth. The economics does not allow for fixed price uncapped services to be of the best quality and we try to provide the highest quality connectivity.

One of the reasons we developed the 500MB unshaped uncapped product is for gamers (mostly WOW) and individual share traders that need low latency connections for this specific purpose. We also support these users to setup their routers (and clients) to be able to use both shaped and unshaped when they need to.

Rudolph, I respectfully disagree with your comment that post paid uncapped accounts are not uncapped. By definition they are, and any presupposition in the market that these are not uncapped is wrong. I also respectfully request that anyone that accused us of 'lying' please backup your statement, it is unjustified.

In future please refer to a "fixed price uncapped service" as a fixed price uncapped service. Caps are not good because it means people pay for bandwidth they don't use. In the South, metered bandwidth is essential if we want any access to high quality bandwidth. Metered bandwidth also puts South Africa (and Australia) in a good position for the future (in the North there will be more demand for metered bandwidth as quality does not continue to improve and as users have more demands for IPTV and VOIP).

We do also provide competitive fixed price uncapped services but these are for a different market segment. As another example think of the retired person (we support the South African Association of Retired People - SAARP) who a) cannot afford to pay for a 1GB account when they only use 200MB and b) don't know why the Internet is not working when they are cut off (and can't afford to sit waiting at the end of a support IVR). For them the R39 option is ideal. Similarly a user that uses 1.3GB will only pay R69 prepaid + R27 postpaid [300(MB) x 9c] = R86 as opposed to have to prepay for 2 or 3GB. For those users that don't want a fully uncapped service (in case their machines/connections are exploited) we also use a term called provisioning, where we will provision their account with what you may refer to as a security 'cap' - although they don't pay for that.

I hope that you can consider my comments and hopefully I have explained well enough for you all to see the benefits of a prepaid/postpaid uncapped service.

Sincerely,

Alan
Click to expand...

Then by your definition, all accounts are uncapped :confused:
 
Alan - If you will, it is like when Bill Clinton said he never had sexual relations with Monica Lewinski. Within the technical confines of the definition he was given he was correct, but let’s face it; a blow job is sexual relations. The point being that you are relying on the technical aspect of the definition.
 
MraL said:
Hi,

I'm responding as the person responsible for the R39 uncapped advert. I've been in the ISP business - providing access - for 15 years and I participate in various global forums for the governance of the Internet infrastructure.

My dictionary defines a cap in this context as: "an upper limit imposed on spending or other activities e.g. a cap on legal immigration". This is my understanding of the term and as an ISP we believe that the term cap is a swearword. It creates grief for people who need access but have been cut off because they reach their cap. It also has been a way for the big ISPs to convert customers and obtain revenue for bandwidth which is NOT used by the customer (i.e. when we started offering this product - almost three years ago - the average usage on a 3GB account at one of the largest ISPs was 1.1GB, in this case the ISP collected moneys for 3GB and pocketed the profits made when the customer only used 1.1).

I admit that our offering is different because we advise our customers to buy the 'least' amount of bandwidth that they use in order to make sure they are not paying for what they don't use (e..g in December most people go away and use a fraction of what they have paid for). This almost always works out cheaper for the customer and because we're delivering metered bandwidth we can afford to deliver the highest quality of bandwidth. The economics does not allow for fixed price uncapped services to be of the best quality and we try to provide the highest quality connectivity.

One of the reasons we developed the 500MB unshaped uncapped product is for gamers (mostly WOW) and individual share traders that need low latency connections for this specific purpose. We also support these users to setup their routers (and clients) to be able to use both shaped and unshaped when they need to.

Rudolph, I respectfully disagree with your comment that post paid uncapped accounts are not uncapped. By definition they are, and any presupposition in the market that these are not uncapped is wrong. I also respectfully request that anyone that accused us of 'lying' please backup your statement, it is unjustified.

In future please refer to a "fixed price uncapped service" as a fixed price uncapped service. Caps are not good because it means people pay for bandwidth they don't use. In the South, metered bandwidth is essential if we want any access to high quality bandwidth. Metered bandwidth also puts South Africa (and Australia) in a good position for the future (in the North there will be more demand for metered bandwidth as quality does not continue to improve and as users have more demands for IPTV and VOIP).

We do also provide competitive fixed price uncapped services but these are for a different market segment. As another example think of the retired person (we support the South African Association of Retired People - SAARP) who a) cannot afford to pay for a 1GB account when they only use 200MB and b) don't know why the Internet is not working when they are cut off (and can't afford to sit waiting at the end of a support IVR). For them the R39 option is ideal. Similarly a user that uses 1.3GB will only pay R69 prepaid + R27 postpaid [300(MB) x 9c] = R86 as opposed to have to prepay for 2 or 3GB. For those users that don't want a fully uncapped service (in case their machines/connections are exploited) we also use a term called provisioning, where we will provision their account with what you may refer to as a security 'cap' - although they don't pay for that.

I hope that you can consider my comments and hopefully I have explained well enough for you all to see the benefits of a prepaid/postpaid uncapped service.

Sincerely,

Alan
Click to expand...

It would be less ambiguous to refer to your 500MB service as "500MB, thereafter out of bundle rates apply" than to refer to it as "uncapped".
Uncapped should always be fixed cost services.
If you have to pay in more then it is not uncapped, as then theoretically everyone is on uncapped as we can always pay more to get more after reaching a cap with just about any ISP.
 
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MraL said:
Hi,

I'm responding as the person responsible for the R39 uncapped advert. I've been in the ISP business - providing access - for 15 years and I participate in various global forums for the governance of the Internet infrastructure.

My dictionary defines a cap in this context as: "an upper limit imposed on spending or other activities e.g. a cap on legal immigration". This is my understanding of the term and as an ISP we believe that the term cap is a swearword. It creates grief for people who need access but have been cut off because they reach their cap. It also has been a way for the big ISPs to convert customers and obtain revenue for bandwidth which is NOT used by the customer (i.e. when we started offering this product - almost three years ago - the average usage on a 3GB account at one of the largest ISPs was 1.1GB, in this case the ISP collected moneys for 3GB and pocketed the profits made when the customer only used 1.1).

I admit that our offering is different because we advise our customers to buy the 'least' amount of bandwidth that they use in order to make sure they are not paying for what they don't use (e..g in December most people go away and use a fraction of what they have paid for). This almost always works out cheaper for the customer and because we're delivering metered bandwidth we can afford to deliver the highest quality of bandwidth. The economics does not allow for fixed price uncapped services to be of the best quality and we try to provide the highest quality connectivity.

One of the reasons we developed the 500MB unshaped uncapped product is for gamers (mostly WOW) and individual share traders that need low latency connections for this specific purpose. We also support these users to setup their routers (and clients) to be able to use both shaped and unshaped when they need to.

Rudolph, I respectfully disagree with your comment that post paid uncapped accounts are not uncapped. By definition they are, and any presupposition in the market that these are not uncapped is wrong. I also respectfully request that anyone that accused us of 'lying' please backup your statement, it is unjustified.

In future please refer to a "fixed price uncapped service" as a fixed price uncapped service. Caps are not good because it means people pay for bandwidth they don't use. In the South, metered bandwidth is essential if we want any access to high quality bandwidth. Metered bandwidth also puts South Africa (and Australia) in a good position for the future (in the North there will be more demand for metered bandwidth as quality does not continue to improve and as users have more demands for IPTV and VOIP).

We do also provide competitive fixed price uncapped services but these are for a different market segment. As another example think of the retired person (we support the South African Association of Retired People - SAARP) who a) cannot afford to pay for a 1GB account when they only use 200MB and b) don't know why the Internet is not working when they are cut off (and can't afford to sit waiting at the end of a support IVR). For them the R39 option is ideal. Similarly a user that uses 1.3GB will only pay R69 prepaid + R27 postpaid [300(MB) x 9c] = R86 as opposed to have to prepay for 2 or 3GB. For those users that don't want a fully uncapped service (in case their machines/connections are exploited) we also use a term called provisioning, where we will provision their account with what you may refer to as a security 'cap' - although they don't pay for that.

I hope that you can consider my comments and hopefully I have explained well enough for you all to see the benefits of a prepaid/postpaid uncapped service.

Sincerely,

Alan
Click to expand...

This is Bull! Your company is guilty of using technical terms to bamboozle the public and offer services that don't really exist. I dunno why people are being so nice to you here... but you are the kind of person that makes broadband in this country a massive headache and burdensome cost to the South African Public. Please stop hiding behind these "definitions" and terms or we will be forced to take you to the ASA.

Everywhere else in the world "uncapped" refers to a fixed rate service which has no cap. What you are offering does have a cap and anything beyond that is charged for. There is no difference between what you are offering and every other capped product on the SA market. When I exhaust my 10 Gb WebAfrica Account and get capped... I can also buy more cap and then keep using it.... is it then also uncapped? In your crooked book yes.... but not in any other common sense usage of the word.

You are as bad as Telkom with their "uncapped" local. But never mind... the public will judge you for what you are.
 
I think MraL has lost the plot just like the rest of the local industry. What part of "uncapped" do you peole not understand?
 
MraL said:
Hi,

I'm responding as the person responsible for the R39 uncapped advert. I've been in the ISP business - providing access - for 15 years and I participate in various global forums for the governance of the Internet infrastructure.

My dictionary defines a cap in this context as: "an upper limit imposed on spending or other activities e.g. a cap on legal immigration". This is my understanding of the term and as an ISP we believe that the term cap is a swearword. It creates grief for people who need access but have been cut off because they reach their cap. It also has been a way for the big ISPs to convert customers and obtain revenue for bandwidth which is NOT used by the customer (i.e. when we started offering this product - almost three years ago - the average usage on a 3GB account at one of the largest ISPs was 1.1GB, in this case the ISP collected moneys for 3GB and pocketed the profits made when the customer only used 1.1).

I admit that our offering is different because we advise our customers to buy the 'least' amount of bandwidth that they use in order to make sure they are not paying for what they don't use (e..g in December most people go away and use a fraction of what they have paid for). This almost always works out cheaper for the customer and because we're delivering metered bandwidth we can afford to deliver the highest quality of bandwidth. The economics does not allow for fixed price uncapped services to be of the best quality and we try to provide the highest quality connectivity.

One of the reasons we developed the 500MB unshaped uncapped product is for gamers (mostly WOW) and individual share traders that need low latency connections for this specific purpose. We also support these users to setup their routers (and clients) to be able to use both shaped and unshaped when they need to.

Rudolph, I respectfully disagree with your comment that post paid uncapped accounts are not uncapped. By definition they are, and any presupposition in the market that these are not uncapped is wrong. I also respectfully request that anyone that accused us of 'lying' please backup your statement, it is unjustified.

In future please refer to a "fixed price uncapped service" as a fixed price uncapped service. Caps are not good because it means people pay for bandwidth they don't use. In the South, metered bandwidth is essential if we want any access to high quality bandwidth. Metered bandwidth also puts South Africa (and Australia) in a good position for the future (in the North there will be more demand for metered bandwidth as quality does not continue to improve and as users have more demands for IPTV and VOIP).

We do also provide competitive fixed price uncapped services but these are for a different market segment. As another example think of the retired person (we support the South African Association of Retired People - SAARP) who a) cannot afford to pay for a 1GB account when they only use 200MB and b) don't know why the Internet is not working when they are cut off (and can't afford to sit waiting at the end of a support IVR). For them the R39 option is ideal. Similarly a user that uses 1.3GB will only pay R69 prepaid + R27 postpaid [300(MB) x 9c] = R86 as opposed to have to prepay for 2 or 3GB. For those users that don't want a fully uncapped service (in case their machines/connections are exploited) we also use a term called provisioning, where we will provision their account with what you may refer to as a security 'cap' - although they don't pay for that.

I hope that you can consider my comments and hopefully I have explained well enough for you all to see the benefits of a prepaid/postpaid uncapped service.

Sincerely,

Alan
Click to expand...

Don't bull****. You know what "uncapped" should mean. Limitless internet usage for a once-off, monthly, flat rate fee. It's people like you we can blame for the mess that is the local telecoms industry. nice going bud, way to be a team player.

added: By your definition, my cellphone contract with vodacom then also offers unlimited (uncapped) calls. (250mins Plus R2.20 per minute there after???)
 
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Garyvdh said:
haha... fortunately most of the public are clever enough to see through all the lies. I am OK with a flat rated uncapped offering that is throttled during business hours because you can still use it to the max after hours. But any "uncapped offering" where you are charged an ongoing fee for extended usage is a flat out lie. That much is just common sense.

The rule of thumb is... if there is any kind of cap or limit attached to the offering, then it is not uncapped.
Click to expand...

I would be interested to know which ISP you are using please?
 
I am a little confused. Doesn't SA already have a term for this sort of arrangement?

I was under the impression that packages like the one in the advertisement that MraL is (or so he/she claims) responsible for were referred to as "soft capped". Or am I not understanding something here?

What exactly is the difference between an account with a "soft cap" and this package?
 
Garyvdh said:
This is Bull! Your company is guilty of using technical terms to bamboozle the public and offer services that don't really exist. I dunno why people are being so nice to you here... but you are the kind of person that makes broadband in this country a massive headache and burdensome cost to the South African Public. Please stop hiding behind these "definitions" and terms or we will be forced to take you to the ASA.

Everywhere else in the world "uncapped" refers to a fixed rate service which has no cap. What you are offering does have a cap and anything beyond that is charged for. There is no difference between what you are offering and every other capped product on the SA market. When I exhaust my 10 Gb WebAfrica Account and get capped... I can also buy more cap and then keep using it.... is it then also uncapped? In your crooked book yes.... but not in any other common sense usage of the word.
Click to expand...

+ infinity.

You are as bad as Telkom with their "uncapped" local. But never mind... the public will judge you for what you are.
Click to expand...

Agreed, hands down. As as a member of the public, I'd just like to point out that, MraL/Alan/whatever you'd prefer to be known as, you don't want to know what I think of you and your insipid word-twisting to justify the extortion in the telecoms sector in this country. You're as guilty as the rest. Please, ****.
 
porchrat said:
I am a little confused. Doesn't SA already have a term for this sort of arrangement?

I was under the impression that packages like the one in the advertisement that MraL is (or so he/she claims) responsible for were referred to as "soft capped". Or am I not understanding something here?

What exactly is the difference between an account with a "soft cap" and this package?
Click to expand...

Alan's package is no different to say an Axxess Prepaid account with 1GB auto top-up enabled say whenever you get down to 200MB left.
 
Garyvdh said:
This is Bull! Your company is guilty of using technical terms to bamboozle the public and offer services that don't really exist. I dunno why people are being so nice to you here... but you are the kind of person that makes broadband in this country a massive headache and burdensome cost to the South African Public. Please stop hiding behind these "definitions" and terms or we will be forced to take you to the ASA.

Everywhere else in the world "uncapped" refers to a fixed rate service which has no cap. What you are offering does have a cap and anything beyond that is charged for. There is no difference between what you are offering and every other capped product on the SA market. When I exhaust my 10 Gb WebAfrica Account and get capped... I can also buy more cap and then keep using it.... is it then also uncapped? In your crooked book yes.... but not in any other common sense usage of the word.

You are as bad as Telkom with their "uncapped" local. But never mind... the public will judge you for what you are.
Click to expand...

agreed thats why if i see an advert for uncapped for R39 i lol, such BS
 
Time/Warner tried converting to 'capped' (us the myBB reader's definition) accounts...

There was such an outcry from their customers that Time/Warner changed the accounts back.

So, once again... The 'Other countries' argument is irrelevant.


From my ununique way of thinking...
I've been in the ISP business - providing access - for 15 years and I participate in various global forums for the governance of the Internet infrastructure.
Click to expand...

This could mean you have as much practice at defending the bottom line of ISPs around the world... (Please note the presupposition that you in fact defend your customer's wallets too).
 
for uncapped you ask 1 questions
1. When do they cut your access ?, if the answers is after x amount of bandwidth used it is not uncapped.

That should make it easy, i am on uncapped wireless, pricey but it's uncapped
 
Tns said:
for uncapped you ask 1 questions
1. When do they cut your access ?, if the answers is after x amount of bandwidth used it is not uncapped.

That should make it easy, i am on uncapped wireless, pricey but it's uncapped
Click to expand...

Hmm, I'm not sure I like this definition, it is a bit incomplete. Because according to this, Alan's product above would then be uncapped... and so would WebAfrica's Automatic top-up option... you never get cut off... you just get charged and charged.

I would rather change it to say... Uncapped is...

1) No cap (Unlimited except by theoretical limitations of bandwidth over time).
2) Fixed charge (up front).

Uncapped = One rate for unlimited access (up front).
Soft Cap = threshhold with out of bundle pricing (up front AND post paid).
Hard Cap = threshhold and then no access (up front cost).
 
Garyvdh said:
Uncapped = One rate for unlimited access (up front).
Soft Cap = threshhold with out of bundle pricing (up front AND post paid).
Hard Cap = threshhold and then no access (up front cost).
Click to expand...

+1 This is the way I see it too, and don't even get me started on "uncapped express" accounts :rolleyes:
 
U think we will ever get uncapped unless at a huge price not on our lives its like asking telkom to make all local call's free not going to happen. Where did u fall out of Mral thats the biggest load of b**** I have ever heard and its big heads like you (including ICASA etc...) that is scr***ing up our internet
 
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