US Election 2020

[rietrot]

New studies show Medicare for All costs less than public option

Yale and Harvard researchers found that Medicare for All reduces costs while public option makes health care more expensive.

www.salon.com

Multiple studies show Medicare for All would be cheaper than public option pushed by moderates

Yale and Harvard researchers: Medicare for All reduces costs, while public option makes health care more expensive

Two new studies further showed that the Medicare for All plan is not only cheaper than the status quo but also costs less than the public option moderates have claimed is more fiscally sound.

A study published in The Lancet this month by researchers at Yale University, the University of Florida and the University of Maryland estimated that Medicare for All would save $450 billion per year — about $2,400 in annual savings per family — and would prevent more than 68,000 unnecessary deaths each year.

"Our study is actually conservative because it doesn't factor in the lives saved among underinsured Americans—which includes anyone who nominally has insurance but has postponed or foregone care because they couldn't afford the copays and deductibles," Yale researcher Alison Galvani told Newsweek.

Medicare for All would allow the government to negotiate prices for care, as most Western nations with single-payer systems already do, and reduce overhead costs.

Biden and Buttigieg's proposals would actually increase costs, Galvani said.

"Without the savings to overhead, pharmaceutical costs, hospital/clinical fees, and fraud detection, 'Medicare for all who want it' could annually cost $175 billion dollars more than status quo," Galvani told Newsweek. "That's over $600 billion more than Medicare for all."

The assumption that government negotiated prices will be cheaper is ridiculous.

Governments pays more for stuff. The reason it is too expensive at the moment is because of government involvement.

They need less government, not more.

 

[Gaz{M}]

The US don't elect kings, they elect parties and presidents.
Bernie can't change anything without Congress.

So I don't see why him winning is the end of capitalism. It will only mean a change in "policy" but ultimately huge compromises will have to be made to get anything through.

 

[Temujin]

Forty-one Democratic senators voted this afternoon to block the Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act, successfully filibustering the legislation and preventing it from receiving a final vote. The bill would have required doctors to provide standard medical care to newborn infants who survive abortion procedures.

Democrats Block Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act in the Senate | National Review

Forty-one Democratic senators voted this afternoon to block the Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act, successfully filibustering the legislation.

www.nationalreview.com

 

[Speedster]

Forty-one Democratic senators voted this afternoon to block the Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act, successfully filibustering the legislation and preventing it from receiving a final vote. The bill would have required doctors to provide standard medical care to newborn infants who survive abortion procedures.

Democrats Block Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act in the Senate | National Review

Forty-one Democratic senators voted this afternoon to block the Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act, successfully filibustering the legislation.

www.nationalreview.com

Democrats: separating parents from their children is evil.

Also Democrats: if a parent doesn't want their child, go ahead and kill it.

 

[Temujin]

Democrats: separating parents from their children is evil.

Also Democrats: if a parent doesn't want their child, go ahead and kill it.

Yeah, pretty much
Look, I have no problem with abortion, your body and all that do whatever... but there needs to be a limit, these late term things are not right, no matter how you spin it, and then to not give medical care when it comes out breathing, fark no, its sick, this should have gone though 100 votes, its disgusting they blocked it

 

[konfab]

Yeah, pretty much
Look, I have no problem with abortion, your body and all that do whatever... but there needs to be a limit, these late term things are not right, no matter how you spin it, and then to not give medical care when it comes out breathing, fark no, its sick, this should have gone though 100 votes, its disgusting they blocked it

That literally makes you a Nazi.

 

[Alan]

Democrats: separating parents from their children is evil.

Also Democrats: if a parent doesn't want their child, go ahead and kill it.

Democrats: Executing a convicted child murderer is morally unacceptable

Also Democrats: Murdering a months old innocent defenceless baby is fine. In fact it's something empowering and to celebrate.

 

[Temujin]

That literally makes you a Nazi.

I know right /laughs in seig heil

 

[cerebus]

Yeah, pretty much
Look, I have no problem with abortion, your body and all that do whatever... but there needs to be a limit, these late term things are not right, no matter how you spin it, and then to not give medical care when it comes out breathing, fark no, its sick, this should have gone though 100 votes, its disgusting they blocked it

Have you bothered to listen to the other side of the story here?

 

[Temujin]

Have you bothered to listen to the other side of the story here?

There is no other side to this bill. If it survives the late term abortion and comes out breathing, the very least a doctor should do is provide medical care, not just throw it in the bin. There is no other side to that. Not providing medical assistance can not be justified. This crosses the line.

 

[cerebus]

There is no other side to this bill. If it survives the late term abortion and comes out breathing, the very least a doctor should do is provide medical care, not just throw it in the bin. There is no other side to that. Not providing medical assistance can not be justified. This crosses the line.

There certainly is another side to it.

For one thing, babies that do survive an abortion - which is extremely rare and highly complex discussion which neither you nor I really have any expertise on - are already protected under law. Nobody is "throwing them into the bin".

H.R.2175 - 107th Congress (2001-2002): Born-Alive Infants Protection Act of 2002

Summary of H.R.2175 - 107th Congress (2001-2002): Born-Alive Infants Protection Act of 2002

www.congress.gov

 

[AlmightyBender]

The assumption that government negotiated prices will be cheaper is ridiculous.

Governments pays more for stuff. The reason it is too expensive at the moment is because of government involvement.

They need less government, not more.

Mkay.

So the reason that insulin costs less in Canada than the USA is because the government is less involved in healthcare in that country?

 

[rietrot]

Mkay.

So the reason that insulin costs less in Canada than the USA is because the government is less involved in healthcare in that country?

Yes. There's more regulation in the US with the FDA, and big pharmaceutical companies lobbying for government protection against the generic versions of drugs and protecting their monopolies.

More government won't fix the problem, the lobbyist doesn't go away if you nationalise health care it gets worse.

More competition is the only solution.

 

[Temujin]

There certainly is another side to it.

For one thing, babies that do survive an abortion - which is extremely rare and highly complex discussion which neither you nor I really have any expertise on - are already protected under law. Nobody is "throwing them into the bin".

H.R.2175 - 107th Congress (2001-2002): Born-Alive Infants Protection Act of 2002

Summary of H.R.2175 - 107th Congress (2001-2002): Born-Alive Infants Protection Act of 2002

www.congress.gov

You're not following what the bill is for and how it differs. And yes, what they do currently is no different from throwing them in the bin

 

[cerebus]

You're not following what the bill is for and how it differs.

Oh I am, I am. I have been following the born alive bill for a long time. It's a transparent, cynical exercise in demonizing democrats as baby killers by putting forward legislation that nobody on the left or in the medical community would ever agree to.

House Republicans to Vote on 'Shock Value' Abortion Bill as Anti-Choice Protesters Descend on D.C. (Updated)

“When you’re telling they need to provide a certain way but not telling them how, it’s going to scare them away from providing care at all."

rewire.news

“The point of this kind of legislation—it’s for shock value,” said Diane Horvath-Cosper, an OB-GYN, abortion provider, and fellow with Physicians for Reproductive Health. “It’s not medically accurate, [and] it’s not founded in any kind of actual science.”

 

[Speedster]

Yeah, pretty much
Look, I have no problem with abortion, your body and all that do whatever... but there needs to be a limit, these late term things are not right, no matter how you spin it, and then to not give medical care when it comes out breathing, fark no, its sick, this should have gone though 100 votes, its disgusting they blocked it

I have a major problem with it. Whatever the problem, murdering children is never the solution.

It is the lady's body, fair enough, but the moment conception takes place the new child isn't her body anymore. It is a completely different person.

 

[AlmightyBender]

Yes. There's more regulation in the US with the FDA, and big pharmaceutical companies lobbying for government protection against the generic versions of drugs and protecting their monopolies.

More government won't fix the problem, the lobbyist doesn't go away if you nationalise health care it gets worse.

More competition is the only solution.

LOL just LOL

Some facts:
1) Canada has a single payer healthcare system i.e. the government is 100% involved however supply of healthcare is privately owned so they have plenty of competition in who the gov buys the services from
2) Their pharmaceutical industry is heavily regulated through their own FDA equivalent "Health Canada" and its associated agencies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Canada

I can only conclude that you have no idea what you are talking about. Reality just does not fit your narrative.

 

[AlmightyBender]

I have a major problem with it. Whatever the problem, murdering children is never the solution.

It is the lady's body, fair enough, but the moment conception takes place the new child isn't her body anymore. It is a completely different person.

PSA: this is said in 100% jest to illustrate the extreme nature of the position and ideology of a different forum member. Speedster this is not about you sir.

Well if we follow NBFTW's philosophy, that baby is its own person but can't afford medical aid or the rent of using occupancy of the mother's body. In this case NBFTW's position is clear that that person should be left to die because they can't pay their own way. If you want to help that baby then you can do so WITH YOUR OWN MONEY!!1!

 

[The_Right_Honourable_Brit]

Bernie Sanders looks electable in surveys — but it could be a mirage

So which candidate is most likely to beat Trump? Decades of evidence from academic studies suggests that more moderate nominees tend to perform better in general elections than more ideologically extreme nominees. For example, Democratic US House candidates who supported Medicare-for-all fared approximately 2.2 percentage points worse in the 2018 midterms than candidates in similar districts who did not.

But early polling testing how Democratic nominees would fare against Trump suggests a different conclusion: Bernie Sanders, the most left-wing candidate in the Democratic primary, polls as well against Trump as his more moderate competitors in surveys. Democratic voters have appeared to take these polls to heart, as a recent Washington Post-ABC News poll finds that Democrats believe Sanders has the best chance of beating Trump.

BUT

Our data (laid out in an academic working paper here) also found what polls show: that Sanders is similarly electable to more moderate candidates. But, on closer inspection, it shows that this finding relies on some remarkable assumptions about youth turnout that past elections suggest are questionable.

We found that nominating Sanders would drive many Americans who would otherwise vote for a moderate Democrat to vote for Trump, especially otherwise Trump-skeptical Republicans.

Republicans are more likely to say they would vote for Trump if Sanders is nominated: Approximately 2 percent of Republicans choose Trump over Sanders but desert Trump when we pit him against a more moderate Democrat like Buttigieg, Biden, or Bloomberg.

Democrats and independents are also slightly more likely to say they would vote for Trump if Sanders is nominated. Swing voters may be rare — but their choices between candidates often determine elections, and many appear to favor Trump over Sanders but not over other Democrats.

The case that Bernie Sanders is just as electable as the more moderate candidates thus appears to rest on a leap of faith: that youth voter turnout would surge in the general election by double digits if and only if Bernie Sanders is nominated, compensating for the voters his nomination pushes to Trump among the rest of the electorate.

There are reasons to doubt a Sanders-driven youth turnout surge of this size would materialize. First, people who promise in surveys they will vote often don’t, meaning the turnout estimates that Sanders’s electability case rests upon are probably extremely inaccurate. Second, such a turnout surge is large in comparison to other effects on turnout. For example, Sanders would need to stimulate a youth turnout boost much larger than the turnout boost Barack Obama’s presence on the ballot stimulated among black voters in 2008.

Third, Sanders’s electability case requires this 11 percentage point turnout increase among young voters in 2020 to occur on top of any turnout increase that would otherwise occur if another Democrat were nominated.

If the turnout of all age groups increases from 2016 to 2020 (as happened from 2014 to 2018), then the turnout among young people must increase by 11 percentage points above and beyond this broader trend, and must do so solely due to Sanders’s presence on the ticket. Finally, youth voter turnout doesn’t usually go up or down by nearly as much as 11 percentage points from election to election; the Sanders boost would have to be truly unprecedented.

 

[Temujin]

Yes. There's more regulation in the US with the FDA, and big pharmaceutical companies lobbying for government protection against the generic versions of drugs and protecting their monopolies.

More government won't fix the problem, the lobbyist doesn't go away if you nationalise health care it gets worse.

More competition is the only solution.

Yep. Trump has been mumbling about the 'import meds from canada' stuff... I'm guessing it should almost be ready(no doubt saving it for closer to november). Just the general mumblings about it over the years has caused prices to drop for first time since 70s(already 10% down). If it goes through as planned and allows people to import their generic meds from canada, local manufacturers are going to **** themselves