US Election 2020

[konfab]

Yes

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-claims-database/?itid=lk_inline_manual_4

15000 lies isn't 'normal politician things'. He lies on a scale that dwarfs any president on record.

Why don't you have a look at what the WAPO counts as a lie?

Trump said:

We got that done -- criminal justice reform. They could have never done it without me. It was done by us. It wasn't done by anybody else. They came to me. They've been trying to get it for many years. President Obama wouldn't do it or couldn't get it done.”

Wapo said:

Trump signed the First Step Act in 2018, and it was described as historic criminal justice reform. But in these remarks, Trump oversells his accomplishment and undersells President Barack Obama's role. One of the biggest pieces of the First Step Act -- a provision that reduced sentences for crack cocaine offenses -- was an extension of Obama’s efforts in 2010.

That isn't a lie.

And if you want to do things property, you need a denominator as well. How many lies he makes out of the statements that he makes that you would test for lies? Trump does talk a lot, so you would need a denominator for the statements you would actually test for claims if you wanted to be honest about this.

More seasoned politicians are more careful about what they say, so they will talk for 2 hours without claiming anything by uttering platitudes.

 

[Sl8er]

Is that what they're counting?



Seems like those are pretty big numbers to lie about

I have no idea how much it really is, but I'm going to guess it's like $35+something bn to $40+something bn?
So he just rounded up...to make it sound better? Because...he's "the best" -in his opinion?

I don't know. Does it matter? Is the US financially worse off for it? Are people worse off for it?
I mean, what difference will it make in normal guy's life? Did someone die because of it?
If not, it shouldn't really matter...right?
*shrug*

(Hey! Stop fcking dragging me into this shlt! I told you! I'm just here for the diggles! )

 

[buka001]

Why don't you have a look at what the WAPO counts as a lie?

Trump said:


Wapo said:


That isn't a lie.

And if you want to do things property, you need a denominator as well. How many lies he makes out of the statements that he makes that you would test for lies? Trump does talk a lot, so you would need a denominator for the statements you would actually test for claims if you wanted to be honest about this.

More seasoned politicians are more careful about what they say, so they will talk for 2 hours without claiming anything by uttering platitudes.

That is still a lie.

 

[Sl8er]

Strawman.

If you want to make an actual point, use some actual examples.

Aw shlt!
Busted!
You got me, you got me.

 

[konfab]

Strawman.

If you want to make an actual point, use some actual examples.

And another:

“Liberal lawmakers are pushing a government takeover of healthcare that would strip 180 million Americans of their private health insurance.”

Several leading Democrats are proposing to expand Medicare to cover all Americans. By extension, this would render the private insurance industry obsolete. But the 180 million people on private plans wouldn't be left uncovered, as Trump suggests, because they would be absorbed into the expanded Medicare system.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-claims-database/?itid=lk_inline_manual_4

So Trump is telling the truth here, but WAPO calls it a lie as they state that all will be fine because they will be able to use government healthcare.

Trump isn't suggesting that the people won't have cover, is telling people that they won't have private cover. Which if you live in a socialist hellhole, makes quite a difference.

 

[lumeer]

I'm still waiting for the medical diagnosis on Trump's supposed mental condition.

Last time you just left any semblance of reason to state it as fast even though no medical professional seems to have ever come to this conclusion after an appropriate examination. But then also, I guess I forget, hatred of Trump is so strong that the normal rules of logic don't apply.

Many mental health professionals have publicly intimated that Trump has NPD. The tens of thousands of hours of recorded material of him, and accounts of his behaviour from thousands of individuals, give ample basis for a diagnosis.

I would argue that your love of Trump prevents you from seeing the obvious.

 

[Okty]

Can't wait for the Dem vs Trump debates!
It's going to be a shltshow of note...it's going to be fcking glorious!

I am still hoping for a Bernie and Trump live debate with each other!

 

[Sl8er]

I am still hoping for a Bernie and Trump live debate with each other!

My dude...DO THE DEATH!!

 

[cerebus]

I am still hoping for a Bernie and Trump live debate with each other!

Yeah me too. In my opinion presidents in the US get far too little opportunity to debate their ideas in public. Same goes for Obama and every past president. I think if Trump was publicly accountable for his actions and couldn't just pick and choose softball interviews, as they do it in the UK, it would make a big difference.

 

[lumeer]

I don't know. Does it matter? Is the US financially worse off for it? Are people worse off for it?

Yes, people are worse off under Trump's trade war, which is why he has to lie about it to make it sound good. US exports to China are back at 2011 levels under Trump.

 

[konfab]

Yeah me too. In my opinion presidents in the US get far too little opportunity to debate their ideas in public. Same goes for Obama and every past president. I think if Trump was publicly accountable for his actions and couldn't just pick and choose softball interviews, as they do it in the UK, it would make a big difference.

What the fuk do you call impeachment and elections every 4 years then?

The UK does the accountability thing very well IMO. Except they get Parliament to do it instead of someone from the media.

Prime Minister's Questions (often abbreviated to PMQs and officially known as Questions to the Prime Minister, while colloquially known as Prime Minister's Question Time) is a constitutional convention in the United Kingdom, currently held as a single session every Wednesday at noon when the House of Commons is sitting, during which the Prime Minister answers questions from Members of Parliament (MPs).[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister's_Questions


HW Bush said that he is thankful that the US doesn't have PMQs.

 

[cerebus]

What the fuk do you call impeachment and elections every 4 years then?

Impeachments where the President never even once has to testify on his own behalf? So much accountability.

The UK does the accountability thing very well IMO. Except they get Parliament to do it instead of someone from the media

I agree

 

[SoldierMan]

Looks like he was right...

 

[Speedster]

Many mental health professionals have publicly intimated that Trump has NPD. The tens of thousands of hours of recorded material of him, and accounts of his behaviour from thousands of individuals, give ample basis for a diagnosis.

I would argue that your love of Trump prevents you from seeing the obvious.

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[BBSA]

 

[lumeer]

Thanks for proving my point.

Until Trump submits to a psychiatric evaluation and allows the psychiatrist to release their assessment to the public, there won't ever be an official diagnosis of NPD. That does not mean that he does not have NPD. This is not Schrödinger's Cat. Someone doesn't have a mental health condition only once a psychiatrist clinically evaluates them to have one.

 

[konfab]

Impeachments where the President never even once has to testify on his own behalf? So much accountability.

You said public accountability. They is held accountable to elected both politicians and the electorate. I stand corrected, but congress can subpoena a president, but they can't enforce it. The balance is that if they are impeaching him, they can use his refusal to answer the subpoena as part of reasons to impeach.

I agree

Accountability means that people face consequences of their actions. That doesn't happen directly with PMQs or a media interview. It happens via the first way, which is with impeachment or elections.

 

[Sl8er]

Yes, people are worse off under Trump's trade war, which is why he has to lie about it to make it sound good. US exports to China are back at 2011 levels under Trump.

Anecdote:
Spoke to my BIL the other day, he's doing better than he ever has.
In fact every Vet he's dealt with since The Orange Don was voted in, claims the same thing.
Shlt...I'll call him later tonight and tell him he's talking kaka.

He's a senior tech at one of the VA Medical Centers...he deals with many of them on a daily basis.
Fck, I can't believe he's been lying to me.

Thanks for the heads-up, bro. ( <- jokes! )

 

[cerebus]

You said public accountability. They is held accountable to elected both politicians and the electorate. I stand corrected, but congress can subpoena a president, but they can't enforce it. The balance is that if they are impeaching him, they can use his refusal to answer the subpoena as part of reasons to impeach.

What I mean in this context is - being forced to answer tough questions in public, in a way that [they] can't instantly dismiss.

 

[Sl8er]

Until Trump submits to a psychiatric evaluation and allows the psychiatrist to release their assessment to the public, there won't ever be an official diagnosis of NPD. That does not mean that he does not have NPD. This is not Schrödinger's Cat. Someone doesn't have a mental health condition only once a psychiatrist clinically evaluates them to have one.

Trump's psychiatric eval to the Dems is like Obama's birth certificate to the Reps...or something, amirite!

Ok, but seriously, now... me --> "'s" ...that is all (I hope)....