US pledges financial rescue plan (2008)

[Turiko]

I am stepping out of this thread, as every point I make gets argued down with financial mumbo-jumbo.

Economists and other financial people are the bane of the lives of people who work with their hands and produce tangible results.

 

[vxv]

Exactly how are they bull****ting?
I do remember them saying they are in the worst situation since the Great Depression and they are trying to bail out with that $700billion.

As I said, all countries in the world, are inclined to their economy.
If they got a cold, we sneeze. You cannot critisize America for having the worlds largest economy and them going through a tough patch. Is it their fault everyone trades with them?

AND WHO ARE THEY BLAMING? PLEASE LINK A SOURCE

What are you on about?
I referred to your thread title being "Doofus"

Exactly how are they bull****ting?
I do remember them saying they are in the worst situation since the Great Depression and they are trying to bail out with that $700billion.

They are lending more from the reserve, if they accounted for their mistakes they will allow new ventures to come up and rather invest in their business model than borrow against a failing one.

As I said, all countries in the world, are inclined to their economy.
If they got a cold, we sneeze. You cannot critisize America for having the worlds largest economy and them going through a tough patch. Is it their fault everyone trades with them?

AND WHO ARE THEY BLAMING? PLEASE LINK A SOURCE

I agree we shouldn’t be trading with them. So yes. They meddle with everyone’s economies, remember the end WW2, golf war, gulf war, Iraq, afgansitan, Pakistan, south Africa and Georgia. They didn’t in ZIM because they have no interest there (meaning oil). They promote democracy when they are republican. It’s a k@k excuse for their own interests.

What are you on about?
I referred to your thread title being "Doofus"

Well my point is, responding to you statment I'm ignorant, they (US) need to leave the rest of the world alone, and fix their problems. We have our own economic impact and we being linked to them is causing chaos here with our inflation. I blame them for paying R10 a litre for petrol.

 

[vxv]

Firstly we have been around for 300 years. If you don't count the Apartheid government and the government before that you are an idiot. Seeing as they built up what SA is today. If we were here for 10 years as you suggest, we would be worse off than Burundi as we have had NOTHING to start off with.

And your misguided opinion of how every country is growing while the US is slowing... It's called a MATURED economy. Look at Japan etc. China and India will continue to grow as they are POOR. They started with relatively nothing.

The USA can grow at 2% and China at 10% but in real terms, USA would have added $300billion more to their GDP than China. END.

Dude, have you heard of sanctions before. We didn't have the oppurtunity to grow as an economy on international terms. However we enabled ourselves very well.

 

[boramk]

I blame them for paying R10 a litre for petrol.

Blame India and China and post 30+ oil peak for that...
I'm not going to look it up for you, as Turiko I'm leaving this thread

 

[vxv]

But I do admit. China is growing, getting stronger and the foreign reserves do point out to China....

DAMN, I can't believe you said that. Thanks for being fair in argument. /clap sincerely.

 

[Arthur]

Under the Bush administration, we have saw:
[*]US Debt double (hence my foreign reserves argument)

So what actual decision or policy led to this? Government debt? Private debt? Both? How's the total debt made up, and over what portion did his policies have control? I know you're assereting he's to blame, but please give an actual example of any particular action / decision / policy that caused or aggravated this. What alternatives were being touted? It's worth recalling that the Dems are historically the big deficit party, Clinton only bearing the fruits of Reagan's slimming of the federal government and the subsequent massive economic expansion's huge boost to tax revenues.

[*]The invasion of Iraq caused somewhat differences in oil prices as well as heavy government spending. Government spending lead to inflation to dilute the currency which is also attributed to higher oil prices. This also contrubuted to 10% of the debt.

Wasn't the OIF decision bipartisan? And didn't they recoup costs from all the extra discounted oil they got from Iraq, which many say was the main reason for the invasion?

[*]Housing bubble which can be tied with the recent Wall Street crashes which also lead to a butterfly effect of things around the world

Again, what actual policy decision or action did Bush take to cause this? Economists seem evenly divided on how the subprime bubble came about, and most trace the roots back to 1990s 'social' legislation now bearing bad fruit. Also, the housing bubble is not confined to USA - it also obtains in the UK (probably at a worse percentage) under a Labour government and is not merely an export from the USA.

These are probably the main.

Now that being said, he wasn't an awful president, he just made very wrong decisions to put America where it is now.

Actual examples of decisions (not just averring blame)?

 

[vxv]

China EXPORTED more, hence the bigger foreign reserves...
BUSH administration who created a TRADE DEFICIT. All this anti American hoo ha is from 2001 ONWARDS. 2008 hosts NEW elections, meaning NEW policies.

Democrats historically mostly had a surplus, we can hopefully see that soon with Obama...

THEN we will see about the Foreign reserves story.

Cool.. China has lots of interest in natural resources. I'm confident that counts more in their favour than oil...

 

[vxv]

All bets are off, I do not wager with people on a public forum.
Besides, I know what is going on, and I know I am right because I don't look at numbers, I look at tangible facts. I am in the electronics industry, and any fool in this industry can see what is happening. We buy our parts, here in SA, directly from China, the Americans are TOO EXPENSIVE!!!! We are in this business to make money, not to make a loss. To remain competitive we need to get our parts in at the lowest cost, and getting them from the US, and via all their middlemen, is not feasible. The Chinese can custom manufacture a graphics LCD for US$ 1.44 FOB out of Ningbo. An equivalent American part costs many times more than that. Those of you who are electronics engineers will agree with me that there is NO CONTEST with that price, for a CUSTOM LCD never mind a standard one.

Guess what percentage of semiconductors are made in the good ole USA these days?

Oh, and when it comes to injection moulding tools, China is also killing off all the competition. Many SA companies have outsourced the toolmaking to China, because

1) It is cheaper
2) China can deliver within tight deadlines
3) China doesn't come with excuses and sad stories about "how difficult this insert this" and "we need a slide and it will take 6 weeks" BS stories

Do you know that Tupperware are already having their moulds made here and in China, because the Aussies and the Americans rip them too much for it and the tools look like ****.

Fantastic approach Turiko, No problem in that. All guitars are also made in China and that coming from our strongest musical influence in history is remarkable to say the least. Ok English influence is also great but also made in china.

 

[vxv]

No trust me, Bush threw America way off the mark. Way way way off the mark.
You telling me that if another Bill Clinton who had billions in surplus came instead of Bush we would be seeing this?

I agree Bush was the biggest mistake, funny how my family came back when he was elected and bragged about him. LOL, even when we all told them he was a dumb-ass.

Although a president is still the puppet and the puppet masters (war financiers and reserve banks are the actual puppet masters.)

 

[vxv]

Much to vxv's chagrin, it is not a command economy (he thinks the communist economic model is best!).

LOL, actually I don't, only from a production point of view. I actually think we need a new one to work best, something more in the line of a social one, with influences of communist (freedom of religion must be there) and a democratic foundation. Something were money is of no consequence.

 

[vxv]

That is true. China is cheaper but it is because of their robust population and wage rates. America is developed with high wage rates. You cannot compare those two. China will win easily.

And it is still USA btw (Intel). Followed by S. Korea, Japan, S. Korea again, USA again and then Chinese companies.

The wages should be of no consequence, only purchasing power/production rate on equal product quality.

 

[vxv]

New American Dollar Bill in circulation....

LOL, thanks Gary for breaking the ice.

 

[Turiko]

I just want to make one final commen (I forgot to post even though I thought about it during lunchtime)

All guitars are also made in China

As a guitar afficionado, I have noted that every single guitar, including Fender, is made in China. Even the Paul Reed Smith guitars. My own one is made in China, so much for shelling out several grand for a brand name.

I personally know Andy MacGibbon, he is importing everything from China. My wife used to his forwarding and clearing. Not a single item in his shop comes from the United States or even Europe

 

[vxv]

Under the Bush administration, we have saw:


[*]US Debt double (hence my foreign reserves argument)

[*]The invasion of Iraq caused somewhat differences in oil prices as well as heavy government spending. Government spending lead to inflation to dilute the currency which is also attributed to higher oil prices. This also contrubuted to 10% of the debt.

[*]Housing bubble which can be tied with the recent Wall Street crashes which also lead to a butterfly effect of things around the world

These are probably the main.
Now that being said, he wasn't an awful president, he just made very wrong decisions to put America where it is now.

I'll second that, also no-one in the world has respect for him. He needs Rice to negotiate...

 

[vxv]

I am growing tired of having to explain the obvious but here goes:

Labour is cheaper in China because their workforce is very productive for a very small wage. China is one of the most populous nations on earth, they've got a huge number of people in their country and those people need jobs. Many of them are willing to work for little money, in some cases, food, to be employed. They have an edge because they have a work ethic about them (most asians are like this including the Japanese).

Unless they eradicate sweatshops completely in China, which I doubt will ever happen, China will remain the cheap manufacturer for the world.

Agree. They can do everything in its truest form exactly the same, at a manufacturing costs.

 

[vxv]

So what you are saying is that despite China getting richer and richer there will be little to no trickle down to the general population, who will continue to be practically slaves? And you expect this to carry on indefinitely?

Ok, you're entitled to your opinion, but I have an interesting bridge you might consider purchasing...

That is communism my friend, and I hope it doesn’t last, but until then we might have a conquering super power that will be force soon. However to defend Turiko, the Chinese are still happily playing WOW and guild wars while they are working. I’m confident they will have a cultural change to move away from the city and live a little…

 

[vxv]

I am stepping out of this thread, as every point I make gets argued down with financial mumbo-jumbo.

Economists and other financial people are the bane of the lives of people who work with their hands and produce tangible results.

Dude, you are a hero in my book, thanks for having an open mind.

 

[vxv]

Blame India and China and post 30+ oil peak for that...
I'm not going to look it up for you, as Turiko I'm leaving this thread

They only purchased allot and everyone speculated about their reserves, not china.

LOL, your call dude, but thanks for the strong arguments.

 

[vxv]

I just want to make one final commen (I forgot to post even though I thought about it during lunchtime)



As a guitar afficionado, I have noted that every single guitar, including Fender, is made in China. Even the Paul Reed Smith guitars. My own one is made in China, so much for shelling out several grand for a brand name.

I personally know Andy MacGibbon, he is importing everything from China. My wife used to his forwarding and clearing. Not a single item in his shop comes from the United States or even Europe

LOL, very true. I have a Walden, lol. I tried to find one made in europe but even the cello's are made in china via a germany company. LOL.

I looked at the fender and came to the same conclusion as you.

 

[Turiko]

A question-

Have any of you actually been to China on a business visit?