US politics general thread

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konfab

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I'm not your secretary, knob. In any case, your post makes no sense. Who said they said?
The central issue with the gay baker conundrum is when is it ok to force someone to do business with someone else? I trust you understand this part? A lot of people are focussing on some alleged hypocrisy on Trump and Sander's part of being refused service. Me pointing out that they haven't actually done anything besides complain about it makes it a completely different issue.

This is actually going how the cake shop thing should have gone down in the first place. People get denied service for X reason. They put their reason into the marketplace of ideas. Said business who does such a thing gets all the support and boycotts from their actions.
 

RanzB

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The central issue with the gay baker conundrum is when is it ok to force someone to do business with someone else? I trust you understand this part? A lot of people are focussing on some alleged hypocrisy on Trump and Sander's part of being refused service. Me pointing out that they haven't actually done anything besides complain about it makes it a completely different issue.

This is actually going how the cake shop thing should have gone down in the first place. People get denied service for X reason. They put their reason into the marketplace of ideas. Said business who does such a thing gets all the support and boycotts from their actions.

See this is what happens when you either;
Willfully cut out things from my post, or
Are too dumb you noticed you did so.
 

greg0205

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"Actual reporting" based on cooked up information paid for by political opponents ... sure ...

First, I knew one of you incels would run with the Trudeau thing... I had my money on konfab but you’ll do just as well.

Second, nice try with the Steele dossier fake but you seem to have forgotten Stormy... You know, the pornstar who spanked tRump with a rolled up Forbes.

I bet he’s such a top when he’s grabbing his ankles saying, ‘I’ve been a bad boy’.
 

cerebus

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The central issue with the gay baker conundrum is when is it ok to force someone to do business with someone else?

When the alternative is actual segregation. Here, we'll put it in the words of Professor Peterson:

[video=youtube;iabPbcy2Mlc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iabPbcy2Mlc[/video]
 

konfab

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Other way around (no pun intended). One specific bakery didn't want to serve a gay couple because of religious beliefs.
vs
A deluded, yet curiously still high profile, politician calling for an entire nation to "harass" a group of people because of political differences.

The trick is to let them shoot themselves. The way Sarah Sanders handled it was perfect IMO.

For all the angst that evening, Wilkinson said, everything had taken place with decorum. She had been polite; Sanders had been polite; the press secretary’s family had been polite as they followed her out the door.

Last night I was told by the owner of Red Hen in Lexington, VA to leave because I work for @POTUS and I politely left. Her actions say far more about her than about me. I always do my best to treat people, including those I disagree with, respectfully and will continue to do so
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2018/06/23/why-a-small-town-restaurant-owner-asked-sarah-huckabee-sanders-to-leave-and-would-do-it-again/

Politely tell them to f-off and go somewhere else.
 

RanzB

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The trick is to let them shoot themselves. The way Sarah Sanders handled it was perfect IMO.


Politely tell them to f-off and go somewhere else.

The way they both handled it was admirable, you mean.

Now EmPerOr MaGa on the other hand...

Lol
 
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konfab

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When the alternative is actual segregation. Here, we'll put it in the words of Professor Peterson:
What a fantastic clip. Making fun of the way Peterson talks... I know it must be weird to you, but I don't automatically agree with everything JP says.

And again, it doesn't answer the question I asked.

Specifically, lets say a homophobic person found out a wedding cake shop was run by gay people. Would they be **allowed** to refuse to use the shop's services?
 

rietrot

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How could you? Even he doesn't agree with what he says minute to minute.
That rare moment when you realise that not everyones has an ideology that's set in stone and they can change their mind.
 

greg0205

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Specifically, lets say a homophobic person found out a wedding cake shop was run by gay people. Would they be **allowed** to refuse to use the shop's services?

Did you fall on your head before writing this?

What do you think 'consumer boycott' means? What do you think the phrase 'vote with your wallet' means?

Folk aren't only allowed to refuse a shops's services, there are cases where it's actively encouraged... Kinda like SHS and Trump are doing with this place.

PS. How's your Polony sandwich?
 

RanzB

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That rare moment when you realise that not everyones has an ideology that's set in stone and they can change their mind.

That moment when you realise someone has thought things out so poorly that they're able to be convinced to do 180 within a 40 second timespan on a fundamental issue that they preach to others about.
 

Unhappy438

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That moment when you realise someone has thought things out so poorly that they're able to be convinced to do 180 within a 40 second timespan on a fundamental issue that they preach to others about.

Still deserves credit for changing his view when a better argument than his is put forth, not many people are able to do that.

The liberal from the full clip wasnt for example, worth a watch.

[video=youtube;QO9j1SLxEd0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QO9j1SLxEd0[/video]
 

cerebus

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Did you fall on your head before writing this?

What do you think 'consumer boycott' means? What do you think the phrase 'vote with your wallet' means?

Folk aren't only allowed to refuse a shops's services, there are cases where it's actively encouraged... Kinda like SHS and Trump are doing with this place.

PS. How's your Polony sandwich?

Not to mention that Sanders' tweet was probably illegal:

http://m.huffingtonpost.co.za/entry...egal-walter-shaub_us_5b301254e4b0321a01d27fe3
 

OrbitalDawn

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Frum is generally pretty good, but this piece is pretty bad, even though I agree (in general) with what he's saying.

He, as many, starts with a false premise. There is no crisis. Illegal immigration is at a 46 year low.

Also, this part is plainly false:

"...increasingly unanimous opposition among Democrats to any form of immigration enforcement at all."

Note how he can't even name one elected Democrat official that has this policy.

It's similar to the egregious strawmanning of any criticism of how this is being done as somehow advocating for "open borders". It's dishonest nonsense.

The argument he's purposefully misunderstanding is that no prosecution service has limitless resources, so directing such a huge amount toward relentlessly prosecuting people (and tearing their families apart quite possibly leading to irreperable harm) for misdemeanors similar to jaywalking and graffiti is idiotic and counter-productive, especially given the harm they do in the process.

What he's also ignoring is how there have been countless attempts by Democrats to compromise to pass immigration reform. Obama tried, multiple times, since the start of his presidency. All the proposals they supported had all the ramped up border security stuff Repubs claim to want, but it was never enough.

Schumer and Pelosi even offered to give Trump his idiotic wall and other border security increases for DACA protection earlier this year. He flatly rejected it, after his usual schizo back and forth.

In fact, there's bipartisan legislation available now that has majority support in both houses of Congress. It can't get a vote because GOP leaders are beholden to the racist wing of the party that refuse to do anything.

Their immigration system (in general) is fairly broken, and the only ones to blame are the GOP.
 

OrbitalDawn

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You think it isn't unconstitutional to deny undocumented immigrants their due process rights?

The key thing is without due process, anyone can be deported by a trigger happy badge-wearer, including US citizens.

I bet Alan was outraged about that. Must be why he's always bringing things like that up, right?

Totally. Just like he was very upset that Republicans actually tried to elect a child molestor to Senate in Alabama. Or nominated an actual Nazi to be their Congressional candidate in Illinois. Or almost elected a guy that calls for a "Jew free America" as a candidate in California. Or elected an unabashed Neo-Confederate as their Senate candidate in Virginia. Or have their front runner in Michigan an unabashed white supremacist and anti-Semite.

So you're saying they will serve gay couples but just not that gay couple? Or are you saying words are more important than actions and just because they didn't explicitly say it, its all ok.

Out of all the things that have gone on in this thread, curious that you think this comes close to fascism.

Same kind of reasoning that leads people to think a miniscule tax increase for billionaires is akin to Hitler invading Poland.

Still deserves credit for changing his view when a better argument than his is put forth, not many people are able to do that.

Extremely telling that the brain genius has somehow never heard or even thought about this counter argument, though.
 

Dave

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And of course Donald the overgrown child has already sent a sulky tweet.

Harley announced Monday that due to the European Union's new tariffs on US motorcycles — which came in retaliation for Trump's steel and aluminum tariffs — the company was shifting some production to non-US plants.

In a tweet later in the day, Trump said he was disappointed with the decision.

"Surprised that Harley-Davidson, of all companies, would be the first to wave the White Flag," Trump said. "I fought hard for them and ultimately they will not pay tariffs selling into the E.U., which has hurt us badly on trade, down $151 Billion. Taxes just a Harley excuse - be patient!"

The Harley move represented a slap in the face for Trump. The president hosted company executives at the White House and has repeatedly praised the company for building its motorcycles in America.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/trump-harley-davidson-trade-tariffs-production-move-2018-6
 
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