US politics general thread

[konfab]

How does the above apply to affirmative action in any shape or form?

prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

Affirmative action is 100% predicated on the belief that white people and Asians are superior to black people.

 

[Cray]

Do you think Bill Gates' kids and a coal miner's kids have equal access?

Nope, but should have clarified, access to public funded primary education.

 

[Garson007]

Nope, but should have clarified, access to public funded primary education.

I don't know how the US education system works, but I'm going to assume that you're going to get assigned to your local school based on where you live, right? How is this system inherently racist? Middle class families in leafy suburbs are going to get good education and someone from Bum**** Alabama will probably not. I don't see where race enters.

 

[rietrot]

Do you believe that whites and blacks currently receive equal treatment in the US in terms of access to quality primary education...?

Too a point. Slum schools are shît the world over because off the lack of interest shown by the parents. Some blacks might have it harder because of their own gangster culture and absent fathers.

 

[konfab]

Do you believe that whites and blacks currently receive equal treatment in the US in terms of access to quality primary education...?

You are mixing equality of opportunity of outcomes with equality of opportunity.

Affirmative action is equality of outcomes (the outcome being that there is a "diverse" student body).

Equality of opportunity would be something like making sure all the schools have sufficent standards (or heaven forbid allow more charter schools)
http://thehill.com/opinion/education/383708-study-shows-charter-school-performance-debunking-devos-critics

And again, if you want to really make the equality of outcome argument you would use someone's socio-economic status rather than their race. What affirmative action implies is that the spawn of Barrack Obama are somehow less privileged than a the child of a white coal miner from Appalachia. That is why it is a racist and stupid policy.

 

[Cray]

Too a point. Slum schools are shît the world over because off the lack of interest shown by the parents. .

Slum schools are generally **** due to a lack of funding and teachers willing to teach at them - of course the conservative narrative is to blame parents thereby absolving the state from any responsibility of trying to fix the problem.

 

[konfab]

Slum schools are generally **** due to a lack of funding and teachers willing to teach at them - of course the conservative narrative is to blame parents thereby absolving the state from any responsibility of trying to fix the problem.

So the solution to badly managed government schools is to throw more money at badly managed government schools.

Why don't you look at South Africa and see how that is turning out?

 

[Cray]

So the solution to badly managed government schools is to throw more money at badly managed government schools.

It doesn't matter how well you manage a school if the funds aren't available - throwing money at badly managed schools is a mistake, throwing money at underfunded but well managed schools could make a difference - they key is to actually evaluate schools and reward those that are run well with what they have and change the management of those that aren't.

 

[The_Assimilator]

Affirmative action is 100% predicated on the belief that white people and Asians are superior to black people.

Ah, I see your new tactic; I suspected it in the gay conversion thread, and now it's confirmed. You've realised that you have no factual basis for your opposition to various things, but instead of evidencing a modicum of self-awareness and examining why you oppose them, you've decided to continue arguing against them by making claims that are patently ridiculous, verging on trolling. The very definition of "argumentum ad absurdum".

 

[konfab]

It doesn't matter how well you manage a school if the funds aren't available - throwing money at badly managed schools is a mistake, throwing money at underfunded but well managed schools could make a difference - they key is to actually evaluate schools and reward those that are run well with what they have and change the management of those that aren't.

I should congratulate you, you have just invented the charter school.

Try applying a reward system in the public education sphere, like paying teachers a bonus when their kids do well. Unions would never allow it.

 

[rietrot]

It doesn't matter how well you manage a school if the funds aren't available - throwing money at badly managed schools is a mistake, throwing money at underfunded but well managed schools could make a difference - they key is to actually evaluate schools and reward those that are run well with what they have and change the management of those that aren't.

How is the funds not available? You need a willing teacher(It helps if the 40 kids have some manners and parents that discipline their kids) and some hand me down text books that the school take back at the end of the year and hand out again at the beginning. Then any slum school can be at the same level as the schools I went to. And it is greatly up to the parents to manage their childrens education. I don't see why any government should throw money at the school to have fancy stuff. So you're r being dishonest pretending it is a funding problem.

Also people that pay more taxes' children should get better scholling. People should get value for their tax money. So wealthier areas should have fancy schools and poor areas not.

 

[konfab]

Ah, I see your new tactic; I suspected it in the gay conversion thread, and now it's confirmed. You've realised that you have no factual basis for your opposition to various things, but instead of evidencing a modicum of self-awareness and examining why you oppose them, you've decided to continue arguing against them by making claims that are patently ridiculous, verging on trolling. The very definition of "argumentum ad absurdum".

I suppose no facts I can provide will ever convince you:
http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-adv-asian-race-tutoring-20150222-story.html

This is a study that uses racist and sexist statistical methods like logistic regression on university admission data to see how factors like race, sex and SAT scores, affect the liklihood of admission

Critics of affirmative action in American higher education sometimes lose sight of the fact that elite universities give added weight to many different types of student characteristics. In this article, we examine the roles played by preferences for athletes and children of alumni. Based on complete data for three applicant cohorts to three of the most academically selective research universities, we show that admission bonuses for athletes and legacies rival, and sometimes even exceed, the size of preferences for underrepresented minority applicants. Being African American instead of white is worth an average of 230 additional SAT points on a 1600-point scale, but recruited athletes reap an advantage equivalent to 200 SAT points. Other things equal, Hispanic applicants gain the equivalent of 185 points, which is only slightly morethan the legacy advantage, which is worth 160 points. Coming from an Asian background, however, is comparable to the loss of 50 SAT points.

https://www.princeton.edu/~tje/files/files/webAdmission%20Preferences%20Espenshade%20Chung%20Walling%20Dec%202004.pdf

That is direct evidence of racial discrimination.

If you wanted the case for affirmative action, it would be bringing those factors for race down to zero. That is the equality of opportunity position.

 

[cerebus]

Affirmative action: Trump 'to scrap' college racial bias policy


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44703874

How very fascist of the Trumpenfüherer, taking away government incentivised racism.

What the hell do you have to lose?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...sponse/?sw_bypass=true&utm_term=.001c989af84f

 

[Unhappy438]

You should probably at least learn the difference between racial discrimination and racism first...

How does the above apply to affirmative action in any shape or form?

I cant imagine any policy that favours whites over blacks not being labelled racist. Affirmative action is a load of codswallop and is a terrible idea at addressing inequality.

 

[rietrot]

I cant imagine any policy that favours whites over blacks not being labelled racist. Affirmative action is a load of codswallop and is a terrible idea at addressing inequality.

Wow. Are you switching sides?

 

[konfab]

I cant imagine any policy that favours whites over blacks not being labelled racist. Affirmative action is a load of codswallop and is a terrible idea at addressing inequality.

Literally Hitler.

 

[Unhappy438]

Wow. Are you switching sides?

If by sides you mean become a Trump supporter that will probably happen the day you stop trolling, so highly unlikely. As for my views on affirmative action somehow being connected to a Trump supporter well ...

the day you stop trolling

 

[rietrot]

If by sides you mean become a Trump supporter that will probably happen the day you stop trolling, so highly unlikely. As for my views on affirmative action somehow being connected to a Trump supporter well ...

Welcome to the Trump team.

 

[ponder]

Do you think Bill Gates' kids and a coal miner's kids have equal access?

 

[buka001]

So, am I the only one really psyched for the second civil war today?

Been reading Letters from the Second Civil War on twitter. Funny stuff.