US politics general thread

[cerebus]

https://slate.com/news-and-politics...ting-with-russians-peddling-clinton-dirt.html

Michael Cohen Says President Trump Approved Trump Tower Campaign Meeting With Russians Peddling Clinton Dirt

Trump had previously denied knowing about the meeting beforehand, saying he only learned of it shortly before news broke revealing the interaction a year later, once he was already in office. Now we’ve learned that Trump was potentially not only aware of the meeting, but instructed his advisers to take the meeting after Don Trump Jr. was contacted about a Russian lawyer that had potentially damaging information about Clinton. The source of the information is former Trump lawyer Michael Cohen, who says he was present when the discussion took place, along with several other people.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

I'm not sure, cerebus. Seems very out of character for Trump to lie.

 

[Aquila ka Hecate]

I'm not sure, cerebus. Seems very out of character for Trump to lie.

Watched Giuliani doing a fair impression of a demented twat this morning, ranting about how much of a liar Cohen is.

Every single thing he said about Cohen could've been ascribed to Trump.

Guess it's a Game of Liars, now.

Are we in Embassytown?

 

[rietrot]

Every single one of you need to read this link and learn from it.

https://www.better-angels.org

The United States is disuniting. The last presidential election only made clear what many have feared – that we’re becoming two Americas, each angry with the other, and neither trusting the other’s basic humanity and good intentions. Today Americans increasingly view their political opponents not only as misguided, but also as bad people whose ways of thinking are both dangerous and incomprehensible. This degree of civic rancor threatens our democracy.

Launched in 2016, Better Angels is a bipartisan citizen’s movement to unify our divided nation. By bringing red and blue Americans together into a working alliance, we’re building new ways to talk to one another, participate together in public life, and influence the direction of the nation.
GET INVOLVED
What is Better Angels?
Better Angels is a national citizens' movement to reduce political polarization in the United States by bringing liberals and conservatives together to understand each other beyond stereotypes, forming red/blue community alliances, teaching practical skills for communicating across political differences, and making a strong public argument for depolarization.

That's a good initiative. Something that's definitely needed.

 

[Aquila ka Hecate]

That's a good initiative. Something that's definitely needed.

I agree.

 

[buka001]

Every single one of you need to read this link and learn from it.

https://www.better-angels.org

The United States is disuniting. The last presidential election only made clear what many have feared – that we’re becoming two Americas, each angry with the other, and neither trusting the other’s basic humanity and good intentions. Today Americans increasingly view their political opponents not only as misguided, but also as bad people whose ways of thinking are both dangerous and incomprehensible. This degree of civic rancor threatens our democracy.

Launched in 2016, Better Angels is a bipartisan citizen’s movement to unify our divided nation. By bringing red and blue Americans together into a working alliance, we’re building new ways to talk to one another, participate together in public life, and influence the direction of the nation.
GET INVOLVED
What is Better Angels?
Better Angels is a national citizens' movement to reduce political polarization in the United States by bringing liberals and conservatives together to understand each other beyond stereotypes, forming red/blue community alliances, teaching practical skills for communicating across political differences, and making a strong public argument for depolarization.

Very good. Hope it gains traction.

 

[greg0205]

Every single one of you need to read this link and learn from it.

https://www.better-angels.org

The United States is disuniting. The last presidential election only made clear what many have feared – that we’re becoming two Americas, each angry with the other, and neither trusting the other’s basic humanity and good intentions. Today Americans increasingly view their political opponents not only as misguided, but also as bad people whose ways of thinking are both dangerous and incomprehensible. This degree of civic rancor threatens our democracy.

Launched in 2016, Better Angels is a bipartisan citizen’s movement to unify our divided nation. By bringing red and blue Americans together into a working alliance, we’re building new ways to talk to one another, participate together in public life, and influence the direction of the nation.
GET INVOLVED
What is Better Angels?
Better Angels is a national citizens' movement to reduce political polarization in the United States by bringing liberals and conservatives together to understand each other beyond stereotypes, forming red/blue community alliances, teaching practical skills for communicating across political differences, and making a strong public argument for depolarization.

FYI.

I've been tracking Patrick Murphy and David Jolly in Florida. Murphy is a Democrat and Jolly is a Republican, and they've been floating a bipartisan run for Governor. Murphy would take the big job and Jolly would be his lieutenant.

Unsurprisingly, they had to confirm that this was even legal first. It is.

Polling has been positive and it looks like folk will commit money to the campaign.

I hope they run. I hope they win and I hope it sets a trend.

https://www.politico.com/states/flo...new-phase-of-bipartisan-bid-with-jolly-424566

 

[cerebus]

FYI.

I've been tracking Patrick Murphy and David Jolly in Florida. Murphy is a Democrat and Jolly is a Republican, and they've been floating a bipartisan run for Governor. Murphy would take the big job and Jolly would be his lieutenant.

Unsurprisingly, they had to confirm that this was even legal first. It is.

Polling has been positive and it looks like folk will commit money to the campaign.

I hope they run. I hope they win and I hope it sets a trend.

https://www.politico.com/states/flo...new-phase-of-bipartisan-bid-with-jolly-424566

As much as this is an admirable initiative, I fear it's preaching to the converted and some of the problems of modern US politics are simply intractable. How can you have a civil debate with a white supremacist, or someone who engages in bad-faith debate tactics and gaslighting?

 

[greg0205]

As much as this is an admirable initiative, I fear it's preaching to the converted and some of the problems of modern US politics are simply intractable. How can you have a civil debate with a white supremacist, or someone who engages in bad-faith debate tactics and gaslighting?

I respect that they're trying 'tho, but yeah... --> The Summer’s Hottest Trend Is Owning the Libs

The problem is, the “owning the libs” model of politics doesn’t have a point of view. It isn’t about furthering an ideological goal, only churlishness — it seeks to make the world a nastier and dumber place. The emptiness of it all is haunting.

 

[cerebus]

I respect that they're trying 'tho, but yeah... --> The Summer’s Hottest Trend Is Owning the Libs

Yep, I reluctantly have to agree with Dan Carlin when he says that in his view the only direction this leads is another civil war or uprising. Even a drastic action like impeaching Trump could have the unintended consequence of stoking the fire more.

 

[rietrot]

As much as this is an admirable initiative, I fear it's preaching to the converted and some of the problems of modern US politics are simply intractable. How can you have a civil debate with a white supremacist, or someone who engages in bad-faith debate tactics and gaslighting?

Why can't you have a civil debate with a white supremacist? What's wrong with you?

 

[cerebus]

Why can't you have a civil debate with a white supremacist? What's wrong with you?

[video=youtube;zPa1wikTd5c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPa1wikTd5c&t=[/video]

 

[rietrot]

[video=youtube;zPa1wikTd5c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPa1wikTd5c&t=[/video]

At what point in that video does it stop being stupid and strats being relevant? I couldn't force myself to even watch one minute.
Maybe try and answer my question in your own words?

 

[Aquila ka Hecate]

Why can't you have a civil debate with a white supremacist? What's wrong with you?

Can be done - but that would be giving their backward, myopic,arsefardle delusions legitimacy. Instead of consigning them to the laughing-stock heap of history, where they really belong.

 

[cerebus]

At what point in that video does it stop being stupid and strats being relevant? I couldn't force myself to even watch one minute.
Maybe try and answer my question in your own words?

The video perfectly exemplifies my response. Debating the alt-right and others of your ilk is an exercise in pointless surreality. Words become meaningless and the facade of civility is a mockery when the true agenda of the people you are debating is dishonestly represented.

 

[rietrot]

Can be done - but that would be giving their backward, myopic,arsefardle delusions legitimacy. Instead of consigning them to the laughing-stock heap of history, where they really belong.

I could say exactly the same about any socialist. It's a murderous ideology that belongs on the dustheap of history. Exacly the polarising stuff we shouldn't do.

The video perfectly exemplifies my response. Debating the alt-right and others of your ilk...

Lol that lasted long.

 

[Aquila ka Hecate]

I could say exactly the same about any socialist. It's a murderous ideology that belongs on the dustheap of history. Exacly the polarising stuff we shouldn't do.

Including Nationalist Socialist?

 

[cerebus]

Lol that lasted long.

Oh, it's been quite a learning experience to debate you, make no mistake about it. You prevaricate without blinking, ignore documented facts because you don't like the media source, and excuse literally any behavior from Donald Trump even if he turns around and does the exact opposite thing the next day. Debating you is a complete waste of time and you perfectly illustrate the mindset of the types of people for whom this kind of open dialogue initiative is pointless and liable to be manipulated.

 

[rietrot]

Including Nationalist Socialist?

Yeah the Nazis belong to the crazy left. Their rasism angle just confuses some people, but we're seeing exactly the same totay with the leftist identity politics.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

At what point in that video does it stop being stupid and strats being relevant? I couldn't force myself to even watch one minute.

I pushed through to 2m30s ... zero difference or additional value of any kind in sight from the 1min mark. Hats off to anyone who's able to get through the whole clip without gnawing their own wrists off.