US politics general thread

[Unhappy438]

View attachment 540595

Trumpites agreed with him then and will agree with him now. Because he's Trump's toady and EmPeRoR MaGa must be obeyed.

Trolltrot is probably plotting his angle of trolling on this one. Hilarious that people in this thread are still engaging him as if hes operating on good faith princples with regards to the topic.

 

[Techne]

Good Faith Principles... in politics? What is that, another unicorn like an honest politician or a political party in power not beholden to non-democratic special interests?

 

[Unhappy438]

Good Faith Principles... in politics? What is that, another unicorn like an honest politician or a political party in power not beholden to non-democratic special interests?

Ah yes, discussing politics = being a politician.

 

[BTTB]

I have been self employed for 29 years and own a business with my wife of 32 years.
Never ever heard a politician talk like this in my lifetime, never mind the President of the richest country on our planet.
For me its jobs, skills development, education and wages that people can live on.
A Government should be run like a business for its people which appears to be the case that is now unfolding in the US, not like a business for criminals in Government like we have in South Africa.
At the end of the day its Rands and Cents that make or break a country. People need skills development and jobs, not social handouts and a good medical system that works and doesn't put you into debt.

As the politics evolve in the US its easy to judge from afar a President who is politically incorrect with a limited vocabulary, but from an economic point of view I am watching intently as if this kick starts the world economy and peoples lives are improved worldwide as a result a lot of people are going to be eating their words in regards to this Trump guy.

If business improves and everyone has an opportunity of getting a job, I don't care who is in Government.
US politics in general, as this thread calls it, is getting a major facelift, history is going to judge soon enough if we are the right course.

 

[greg0205]

I have been self employed for 29 years and own a business with my wife of 32 years.
Never ever heard a politician talk like this in my lifetime, never mind the President of the richest country on our planet.
For me its jobs, skills development, education and wages that people can live on.
A Government should be run like a business for its people which appears to be case that is now unfolding in the US, not like a business for criminals in Government like we have in South Africa.
At the end of the day its Rands and Cents that make or break a country. People need skills development and jobs, not social handouts and a good medical system that works and doesn't put you into debt.

As the politics evolve in the US its easy to judge from afar a President who is politically incorrect with a limited vocabulary, but from an economic point of view I am watching intently as if this kick starts the world economy and peoples lives are improved worldwide as a result a lot of people are going to be eating their words in regards to this Trump guy.

If business improves and everyone has an opportunity of getting a job, I don't care who is in Government.
US politics in general, as this thread calls it, is getting a major facelift, history is going to judge soon enough if we are the right course.

Interesting you raise, "a business for criminals" and, "history is going to judge soon enough".

I'm of the opinion that when that history does judge 45, *actual* mafia criminals, both Italian and Russian, will play rather prominently in the story of this New York property developer.

 

[Techne]

Ah yes, discussing politics = being a politician.

Good grief, you got that syllogism from what I said:crylaugh:. No wonder Trump is president. All his followers had to do was show up.

 

[Techne]

Somewhat funny, somewhat serious.[video=youtube_share;tfIScRIe0bA]https://youtu.be/tfIScRIe0bA[/video]

 

[Unhappy438]

Good grief, you got that syllogism from what I said:crylaugh:.

:crylaugh:
You should get some tips from trolltrot, he actually catches some.

No wonder Trump is president. All his followers had to do was show up.

Well done, you've figured out how voting works :crylaugh:

 

[Techne]

:crylaugh:
You should get some tips from trolltrot, he actually catches some.



Well done, you've figured out how voting works :crylaugh:

Your comments are so clever:crylaugh:

 

[rietrot]

Trolltrot is probably plotting his angle of trolling on this one. Hilarious that people in this thread are still engaging him as if hes operating on good faith princples with regards to the topic.

I'm happy to see you missed me.

I don't even know who that idiot is or why he is important to you and Randhir.

All layers are liars. This is known. But rather irrelevant.

 

[crackersa]

This is scary for American Democrat’s Socialists. No thought process at all.

https://youtu.be/roeQHQSlIc8

 

[cerebus]

https://slate.com/news-and-politics...ortedly-twice-abused-at-migrant-facility.html

A 6-Year-Old Girl Separated From Parents Was Reportedly Twice Abused at Migrant Facility

A six-year-old girl who had been separated from her mother as part of the Trump administration’s policy of splitting up children from their parents at the border was twice sexually abused at an immigrant detention center, reports the Nation. More shocking still is that the facility’s administrators made the six-year-old “sign” a form that essentially made her responsible for protecting herself from future abuse.

 

[cerebus]

https://www.nytco.com/statement-of-...o-president-trumps-tweet-about-their-meeting/

My main purpose for accepting the meeting was to raise concerns about the president’s deeply troubling anti-press rhetoric.

I told the president directly that I thought that his language was not just divisive but increasingly dangerous.

I told him that although the phrase “fake news” is untrue and harmful, I am far more concerned about his labeling journalists “the enemy of the people.” I warned that this inflammatory language is contributing to a rise in threats against journalists and will lead to violence.

I repeatedly stressed that this is particularly true abroad, where the president’s rhetoric is being used by some regimes to justify sweeping crackdowns on journalists. I warned that it was putting lives at risk, that it was undermining the democratic ideals of our nation, and that it was eroding one of our country’s greatest exports: a commitment to free speech and a free press.

Throughout the conversation I emphasized that if President Trump, like previous presidents, was upset with coverage of his administration he was of course free to tell the world. I made clear repeatedly that I was not asking for him to soften his attacks on The Times if he felt our coverage was unfair. Instead, I implored him to reconsider his broader attacks on journalism, which I believe are dangerous and harmful to our country.

 

[Techne]

Trump:
Dear journalist or editor or whatever MSM animal you may be,

You have made your bed, now sleep in it. The rest of humanity trust you and your ilk as far as they can throw you. The people see through your faux virtue signalling and know that your are the ultimate purveyors of divisive language because it helps to sell your fake product. Now go suck on a lemon.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

The video perfectly exemplifies my response. Debating the alt-right and others of your ilk is an exercise in pointless surreality. Words become meaningless and the facade of civility is a mockery when the true agenda of the people you are debating is dishonestly represented.

This is exactly right. It's meaningless to engage earnestly and 'reach across the divide' with people who will cynically exploit that sincerity. Important to note, of course, that there are many people 'across the divide' from me who aren't like that. I'm not talking about them.

Also worth listening/reading:

The Civility Fetish

Carlin is correct. Trump's support base is comprised of people like rietrot who will make up whatever s**t they want to excuse their Glorious Fuhrer's wrongs and their support of him, regardless of how wrong they are; attempting to engage in discourse with people who are that fanatical is like trying to debate with a member of a cult. You can't, because they are so convinced they're right that any attempt to show them otherwise merely reinforces their beliefs. It's Dunning-Kruger in effect on a massive scale, and the only thing that is going to pop people like this out of their cosy bubble of wilful ignorance and hate is something nasty like a war.

I think there's an important distinction. There are definitely Trump cultists in whose eyes he can do no wrong, and everything is 5D chess etc.

But there's also a distinct subset of supporters who know he's full of schit, don't care, and will continue to gaslight and engage in bad faith, because they're cynical hucksters/trolls.

More generally you can frame the problem as: how do you present evidence to someone who doesn't care about evidence

There are a couple of ways you do it.
1) You don't have to convince the other person that they are wrong in a debate. Just knowing how the other person reaches their opinion about something is pretty educational. Just the debate itself has value, regardless of how stupid the person's views are.

2) You can have a more convincing type of civil debate with anyone, regardless of how foul their views are if they are willing to accept the value of evidence. 3)Excluding someone because you think they are a white supremacist from a debate isn't going to convince anyone of anything other than their pre-conceived bias.

Right, so what to do with an administration and its supporters (including people on this forum) who lie endlessly about immigration and immigrants (legal, illegal, asylum seekers etc.)? And do so to fuel racial demagoguery for political ends?

 

[OrbitalDawn]

A Government should be run like a business for its people which appears to be the case that is now unfolding in the US

That's a terrible idea. A government isn't a businesses, and shouldn't be run like one.

not like a business for criminals in Government like we have in South Africa.

That's exactly what Trump's administration is. A cesspit of corruption.

https://www.americanprogress.org/is...ing-cost-trumps-corruption-american-families/
https://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/january-february-march-2018/a-year-in-trump-corruption/
https://www.esquire.com/news-politi...en-russian-oligarch-payment-trump-corruption/
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/06/wilbur-ross-navigator-trump-pruitt/563441/
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/06/pruitt-is-gone-but-trumps-culture-of-corruption-remains.html
https://crooked.com/article/corruption-basic-fact-trump-administration/

As the politics evolve in the US its easy to judge from afar a President who is politically incorrect

He's incredibly politically correct. Look how staggeringly offended he gets at football players kneeling, for example. Or when people speak frankly about his racism. He gets incredibly offended at the drop of a hat and wants to sue everyone into oblivion.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

A 6-Year-Old Girl Was Sexually Abused in an Immigrant-Detention Center

Separated from her mother by Trump’s zero-tolerance policy, the child was forced to sign a statement confirming that she understood it was her responsibility to stay away from her abuser.

Sickening.

 

[cerebus]

This is scary for American Democrat’s Socialists. No thought process at all.

https://youtu.be/roeQHQSlIc8

Impressive, it took him a whole 2 minutes to bring up Venezuela. Such self-control is rare among the anti-democratic socialist brigade.

[video=youtube_share;vW32S19vp0k]https://youtu.be/vW32S19vp0k[/video]

 

[konfab]

Right, so what to do with an administration and its supporters (including people on this forum) who lie endlessly about immigration and immigrants (legal, illegal, asylum seekers etc.)? And do so to fuel racial demagoguery for political ends?

You post the facts about it.
1) Not wanting illegal immigration into your country is not a position of racism.
2) Uncontrolled immigration is not a good thing for society. It can fuel racial tensions.
3) It isn't racist to state that immigration will not solve the world's problems. (See the gumball immigration video)
4) Stating b.s reasons for immigration like "Diversity" adds fuel to the fire.

 

[konfab]

A 6-Year-Old Girl Was Sexually Abused in an Immigrant-Detention Center

The girl, who is only identified by the initials D.L., and her mother had been fleeing gang violence in their native Guatemala. According to the family, the pair entered the United States at a point of entry in El Paso, Texas, on May 24, where they presented Border Patrol authorities with paperwork claiming that they had “credible fear” that returning to Guatemala would result in harm. On May 26, government officials separated D.L. from her mother and sent her to Casa Glendale, a shelter outside of Phoenix operated by Southwest Key Programs. It was there that the alleged abuse occurred.

This meme needs to die...
Intentional murder rate:
South Africa : 33.97
Guatemala: 27.26
Mexico: 19.26
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate