US politics general thread

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cerebus said:
The kind of socialism you're obviously talking about is the Venezuelan model, which is completely unique to the economy and leadership history of that country. Chavez was a populist strongman like Trump, Maduro is economically inept, and the country's facade of democracy is a sham.
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Funny how the same sort of things happened in the following utopia of the world:
USSR
China
Cuba
Somalia
Mozambique
Angola
Tanzania
Vietnam
Myanmar
Cambodia
Laos
Zimbabwe

Hmm, despite being cross-cultural and cross-national the problems of each of these countries were caused by socialist policies. Gee, it must be unique to Venezuela though because the socialism they practised there wasn't true socialism right?
 
konfab said:
Funny how the same sort of things happened in the following utopia of the world:
USSR
China
Cuba
Somalia
Mozambique
Angola
Tanzania
Vietnam
Myanmar
Cambodia
Laos
Zimbabwe

Hmm, despite being cross-cultural and cross-national the problems of each of these countries were caused by socialist policies. Gee, it must be unique to Venezuela though because the socialism they practised there wasn't true socialism right?
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Lol at your list.
What about the "capitalists" parts of Africa, that sided with their colonial masters. Less developed than a lot of the countries you listed above.
 
cerebus said:
:crylaugh:



Actually there is no one 'true' socialism, and nearly all governments have elements of socialism to one degree or another, including the United States. Medicaid, welfare, social security - and in a sense, the police force and army - are socialized institutions. In the US the public welfare elements of those public provisions have been eroded and defunded, and attempts to restore them are labeled as socialist. The kind of socialism promulgated by dem socialists are actually fairly centrist by the standards of most countries.

The kind of socialism you're obviously talking about is the Venezuelan model, which is completely unique to the economy and leadership history of that country. Chavez was a populist strongman like Trump, Maduro is economically inept, and the country's facade of democracy is a sham.

http://thehill.com/opinion/internat...n-venezuela-demonstrates-failure-of-socialism
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It's a slippery slope. That's the problem with democratic socialism. First we take care of some starving orphans. Then everyone gets free education and health care. Then everyone gets UBI and starts starving as nobody is incentivise to do the shîtty job of growing food anymore.

Don't pretend that some examples of people doing some central charity in the past is socialism working. As that isn't what any socialist today wants. Be honest with yourself and look at what they actually want which is free education, free healcare, minimum wages. That's already 70% down that slippery slope and only a matter of time before they crash off a cliff.
 
rietrot said:
It's a slippery slope. That's the problem with democratic socialism. First we take care of some starving orphans. Then everyone gets free education and health care. Then everyone gets UBI and starts starving as nobody is incentivise to do the shîtty job of growing food anymore.

Don't pretend that some examples of people doing some central charity in the past is socialism working. As that isn't what any socialist today wants. Be honest with yourself and look at what they actually want which is free education, free healcare, minimum wages. That's already 70% down that slippery slope and only a matter of time before they crash off a cliff.
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Plus, socialists burn up white fetuses and sprinkle them on ice cream did you know that?

[video=youtube;Q4PC8Luqiws]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4PC8Luqiws[/video]
 
cerebus said:
Plus, socialists burn up white fetuses and sprinkle them on ice cream did you know that?

[video=youtube;Q4PC8Luqiws]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4PC8Luqiws[/video]
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Bad faith debating tactics. Now you're just posting BS.
 
cerebus said:
No more bs than the histrionic fearmongering you invoke whenever the word socialism is mentioned.
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History facts that you can actually look up. It isn't even that long ago. It isn't even historic. Socialism is failing the world over as we speak. Look at how countries increase debt to pay for all the new government spending.
 
Lol, the socialist snowflakes are trying everything to defend socialism:
1) Ignoring the failures of socialism by pointing out the failures of others. Aka Socialist Tu Quoque poppycockery.
2) But but but strong mixed market economies with socialized medicine are actually socialist countries. All those other failed socialist regimes can't be real socialist countries. The No True Socialist fallacy.
3) You see, democratic socialism is really really really for realz different from socialism. And that is why it will work this time.
4) And their favorite defense: You talk nonsense man, you are too stupid man, like totally man get an education man.
 
Hamish McPanji said:
Lol at your list.
What about the "capitalists" parts of Africa, that sided with their colonial masters. Less developed than a lot of the countries you listed above.
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What countries exactly?

The ones that decided to copy their former masters and implement the evils of capitalism from the start instead of dabbing in socialism are doing very well tbh.

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=GDP+per+capita+Mauritius+South+Africa+Botswana

And the really interesting part is that if you look at the die-hard commies like Vietnam and China, both are moving towards market economies.
 
konfab said:
What countries exactly?

The ones that decided to copy their former masters and implement the evils of capitalism from the start instead of dabbing in socialism are doing very well tbh.

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=GDP+per+capita+Mauritius+South+Africa+Botswana

And the really interesting part is that if you look at the die-hard commies like Vietnam and China, both are moving towards market economies.
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I'm from Malawi. You can start there. You also add DRC to the list
 
Hamish McPanji said:
I'm from Malawi. You can start there. You also add DRC to the list
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Uhm I know very little about Malawi but just reading the Wikipedia entry doesn't seem like they are capitalists following the example of their colonial masters that left. It seems like the typical fail African state, with a corrupt dictator maybe masquerading as a democracy recently.
 
rietrot said:
Uhm I know very little about Malawi but just reading the Wikipedia entry doesn't seem like they are capitalists following the example of their colonial masters that left. It seems like the typical fail African state, with a corrupt dictator maybe masquerading as a democracy recently.
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What are you on about? We were run by lonrho. As capitalistic as you get.

I'll bet you have an excuse for DRC as well?
 
Hamish McPanji said:
What are you on about? We were run by lonrho. As capitalistic as you get.

I'll bet you have an excuse for DRC as well?
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What are property rights like? Can the average person buy a farm to grow their tobacco?
 
Hamish McPanji said:
I'm from Malawi. You can start there. You also add DRC to the list
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Malawi:
In 1964, after serving as a government minister in the colonial administration, Banda adopted a macroeconomic policy aimed at accelerating economic development for the betterment of Malawians. He settled on the Rostow model of "catch up" economics, wherein Malawi would vigorously pursue import substitution industrialisation (ISI). This entailed both a quest for "self-sufficiency" for Malawi – becoming less reliant on its former colonial master – and growth of an industrial base that could ensure Malawi was capable of producing its own goods and services. Such capacity would then be used to catch up and even overtake the West. An infrastructure development program was initiated under the Development Policies (DEVPOLs) documents that Malawi adopted from 1964 onwards. Much of this development was funded through the Agricultural Development and Marketing Corporation, a Government-owned corporation or parastatal formed to promote the Malawian economy by increasing the volume of agricultural exports and to develop new foreign markets for Malawian agricultural produce. At its foundation, ADMARC was given the power to finance the economic development of any public or private organisation. From its formation it was involved in the diversion of resources from smallholder farming to tobacco estates, often owned by members of the ruling elite. This led to corruption, abuse of office and inefficiency in ADMARC,
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Gee a massive government corporation, the epitimay of free market capitalism...

A Malawian Scotsman! That is a new one :p

The DRC:
Started off as a corporate state owned by the government of belgium
Then basically turned into an African version of Nazism:
The Manifesto of N'sele defined the ideological position of the MPR as a combination of "Authenticité" and "Mobutism". It defined Mobutism as an expression of Congolese nationalism, the rejection of tribalism and regionalism, and the abstract concept of "revolution".[2][3] Nationalism and the affirmation of independence was essential to the document.[1] The Manifesto of N'sele also laid out the intentions of the government which included expansion of the national government's authority, a program committed to improving labour standards, maintaining economic independence, and the creation of an "authentic nationalism".[4] It legitimized the creation of a one-party state in the country as an antipolitical means to end the political and ideological infighting which had characterised the Congo Crisis (1960–65).[2]

Importantly in the context of the Cold War, the Manifesto of N'sele repudiated both communism and capitalism as not "authentic" Congolese ideologies.[3] It called for a policy of "positive neutralism" in foreign policy.[2]
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifesto_of_N%27sele

You don't see any of these failed states adopting a free market democracy with a limited government and property rights, but I am happy to be proven wrong.
 
Uh-oh...

Donald J. Trump
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Follow @realDonaldTrump

The globalist Koch Brothers, who have become a total joke in real Republican circles, are against Strong Borders and Powerful Trade. I never sought their support because I don’t need their money or bad ideas. They love my Tax & Regulation Cuts, Judicial picks & more. I made.....

12:14 PM - 31 Jul 2018
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http://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1024236805477097472
 
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