US politics general thread

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scudsucker said:
I realise cognitive dissonance is your standard but this is surely a little over what even you are willing to swallow?

Hint: your Overton window opens on the far right.
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Wow. And you came to this conclusion because he is not anti-Trump? I don't think NarrowBand has stated many opinions on his political views or his stance on many policies. I actually think he, and most around here actually, are quite centrist.

It's amazing how quickly everyone here puts everyone into little boxes, and how badly they have to. And I always thought the left are supposed to be the more open minded and accepting ones.
 
Emjay said:
Wow. And you came to this conclusion because his is not anti-Trump?
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Oh, NBFTW has been on this thread for long enough to get a fairly good idea of where he actually leans on the political spectrum.

It's amazing how quickly everyone here puts everyone into little boxes, and how badly they have to. And I always thought the left are supposed to be the more open minded and accepting ones.
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Give it a rest with the sanctimonious bs will you?
 
Emjay said:
Wow. And you came to this conclusion because he is not anti-Trump? I don't think NarrowBand has stated many opinions on his political views or his stance on many policies. I actually think he, and most around here actually, are quite centrist.

It's amazing how quickly everyone here puts everyone into little boxes, and how badly they have to. And I always thought the left are supposed to be the more open minded and accepting ones.
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Ja, you too, have no concept of the Overton window. Or politics.
 
scudsucker said:
Ja, you too, have no concept of the Overton window. Or politics.
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How do I not have any concept of politics? Please elaborate. How are you able to determine where other people fall on the political spectrum when they don't really talk about about their core beliefs and values? Many people here are attacking a person, and that person's actions (Trump). I did elaborate on my beliefs above. Are you saying that my self assessment is incorrect?

I have never heard of the Opherton Window, I must admit. I did read up a little on it. I however have not done any political or social studies, as this is not a concept that is discussed with any sort of frequency. I take it that you have? If you have, then you know more about politics than I do, which is fine.
 
cerebus said:
Oh, NBFTW has been on this thread for long enough to get a fairly good idea of where he actually leans on the political spectrum.



Give it a rest with the sanctimonious bs will you?
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Just calling it out as I see it. Wasn't directed at you however.
 
Emjay said:
How do I not have any concept of politics? Please elaborate. How are you able to determine where other people fall on the political spectrum when they don't really talk about about their core beliefs and values? Many people here are attacking a person, and that person's actions (Trump)..
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Do you think the criticisms of (attacks) Trump are justified?
 
scudsucker said:
And another, to whom the words "cognitive dissonance", are but mere dictionary entries.
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I don't think I have ever posted anything dishonest on this forum before. Maybe some stuff that's wrong and many stuff that's completely stupid, but never dishonest.
 
Emjay said:
How do I not have any concept of politics.
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If you are sufficiently unaware of your position on issues apropos other opinions, you are genuinely ignorant of politics. The Overton window theory explains why this is so: you think you are a centrist, but because you live in a self-confirming bubble you think that you are even minded and moderate. You see extremes on either side, with whom you do not agree, but you feel your position is reasonable. But, critically, you do not question your own position.

That mindset is poisonous; on both the left and the right. It leads to incredible arrogance: you feel that YOU and your fellow travellers are correct, and it causes you to ignore the validity of anyone who "opposes" you.

I consider myself center-left, but I am hugely aware that that definition is based on my own perspective out of my own Overton window. Sometime, that little bit of self awareness is useful.
 
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rietrot said:
I don't think I have ever posted anything dishonest on this forum before. Maybe some stuff that's wrong and many stuff that's completely stupid, but never dishonest.
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And that, my dear Rietrot, is a textbook example of cognitive dissonance.

You don't think that you've posted anything dishonest.... because you don't think you've posted anything dishonest. A little introspection would show that this is not true.
 
cerebus said:
Well, what's your answer?
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Your post about me is a pretty good one-line summary.

The deeper roots lie in how academia (and I would say the media as well) continuously misrepresents conservatism. Just how you have people on the right misrepresenting liberalism.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...t-know-much-about-conservative-history-219742

The oft-repeated mantra about how conservatives don't care for poor people comes to mind. It is simply nonsense if you look at the policies that are passed as a whole. It is the exact same thing as the ANC does to the DA when the DA makes a policy proposal of anything other than Marxism.
 
konfab said:
Your post about me is a pretty good one-line summary.
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Since several members of my family (my dad, brother, dad's family) are Trump supporters in the US, I actually think I have a pretty good understanding of their mindset. They are at least honest about what they are. My father is a dyed-in-the-wool conservative who tells me in all honesty that Trump never said a single racist thing, and the real problem is the liberal media distorting everything and inciting protests. My dad's family are Southern evangelicals. My brother thinks that black people are under the curse of Ham :oops:. I can deal with them because they don't misrepresent what they are, so at least you have a common base to debate.

What I really don't know how to deal with is someone who defends everything Trump does, then tries to tell you that they aren't right wing. Either you're completely delusional and you need to construct some kind of self-image because of cognitive dissonance, or you're debating in bad faith and pretending to be an objective arbiter of the truth so that you don't get called out on your own beliefs.

The deeper roots lie in how academia (and I would say the media as well) continuously misrepresents conservatism. Just how you have people on the right misrepresenting liberalism.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...t-know-much-about-conservative-history-219742

The oft-repeated mantra about how conservatives don't care for poor people comes to mind. It is simply nonsense if you look at the policies that are passed as a whole. It is the exact same thing as the ANC does to the DA when the DA makes a policy proposal of anything other than Marxism.
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Blah de blah blahbiddy
 
scudsucker said:
If you are sufficiently unaware of your position on issues apropos other opinions, you are genuinely ignorant of politics. The Overton window theory explains why this is so: you think you are a centrist, but because you live in a self-confirming bubble you think that you are even minded and moderate.

That mindset is poisonous; on both the left and the right. It leads to incredible arrogance: you feel that YOU and your fellow travellers are correct, and it causes you to ignore the validity of anyone who "opposes" you.

I consider myself center-left, but I am hugely aware that that definition is based on my own perspective out of my own Overton window. Sometime, that little bit of self awareness is useful.
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I also abhor political positioning on a spectrum, that's why I didn't really want to mention it, as I think certain core values and beliefs can fall anywhere on the spectrum, and not all of them into a single one. That's why I always try to understand what is being debated based on the core issue at hand, and not based on the politics around it (Democratic vs Republican / Trump vs Clinton). All arguments across the spectrum are however needed to get to balanced and fair views/law/decisions.

I have changed my mind on my political issues (such as the perceived wage gap, causes of wealth concentration, etc), and have always tried to present and be fair to both sides. I have even considered arguments from some in this very thread which changed my personal views. Is that cognitive dissonance, or the opposite?

Emjay said:
I am dead center, which does not mean much, does it? Leanings mean nothing either if you really break it down, as it becomes more a policy stance based on core beliefs? But, my core beliefs are a free market, but one that has regulations to protect human rights, environment. I am very anti big government, and government controlling means of production. I am not religious, but believe in freedom of religion, but strongly believe religion or beliefs shouldn't have any role in the law (eg: issues around validating Muslim marriages). Personally pro life, but believe pro choice is the right solution for society, believe in charity more than socialism, the state should help with poverty alleviation where charity does not work and don't believe in identity politics. I don't believe in equal outcomes, but I do believe in equal opportunity. And I am pro-immigration for scarce skills and only that. I don't believe in aid either. Resources are finite, and should be used to help those in our own borders.

Besides that, my political views have zero to do with this.
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So, do you still believe I have no concept of politics?
 
scudsucker said:
... yes.
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A one word answer to my post, and you don't even say why. You just want to sound smart, but not actually discuss any of your reasoning. Another time waster. The only person in this thread that is open to or can discuss an opinion in any way worth engaging in is cerebrus. The rest is, again, circle jerking.

Good day everyone. Pointless thread is pointless. Yes, that's indignation. Too bad.
 
Sorry for your frustration. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
 
cerebus said:
What I really don't know how to deal with is someone who defends everything Trump does, then tries to tell you that they aren't right wing.
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Not everything Trump does is right wing though. That is why he drove a wrecking ball through the GOP.

Trade tariffs for example were largely rejected from the Republicans until Trump. The candidate that most strongly agreed with him on those was Bernie.

Immigration was another thing that Trump brought to the stage that was not a right wing position, as from an economic standpoint: the evil greedy republicans would stand to benefit greatly from hoards of cheap labor.
 
Emjay said:
A one word answer to my post, and you don't even say why. You just want to sound smart, but not actually discuss any of your reasoning. Another time waster. The only person in this thread that is open to or can discuss an opinion in any way worth engaging in is cerebrus. The rest is, again, circle jerking.

Good day everyone. Pointless thread is pointless. Yes, that's indignation. Too bad.
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Its quite amusing when someone requests civility whilst simultaneously declaring that incivility was the better option.
 
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