US politics general thread

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greg0205 said:
re The NYT
"They don’t write good. They have people over there, like Maggie Haberman and others, they don’t, they don’t write good. They don’t know how to write good." - Donald J Trump
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FFS. You got hold of anti Trump quotes' site? Just post the link and then we can read them as apposed to you flooding this thread.
 
Randhir said:
We're still young :X3:

I was just going on your description of it being harassment.
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Can you not see the problem with this whole thing then?

What's so funny is that I am arguing for men's rights against men when I have always argued for women's rights on these forums. Support Ford. Don't. Whatever. The whole thing is very damaging for men.

Seriously said:
FFS. You got hold of anti Trump quotes' site? Just post the link and then we can read them as apposed to you flooding this thread.
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Some of them are funny. Like rain being wet. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some kind of lewdness in there too. :ROFL:
 
Emjay said:
Rumors of an incident are hearsay. Ford's discussion with her therapist is also hearsay. Not to mention her recall of the incident may be completely off. She even says details are hazy. Lie detector tests are also not accurate, and therefore not admissible. And, if this incident really happened, and there were rumours, she clearly told people about it. Why did no one come forward then, or convince her to do so? Why did no one go to a Professor or someone more senior. That is not throwing mud. These points are not even up for consideration.

She can throw mud without any proof, but I cannot? Her actions are proof of something sinister going on here.

There should be an investigation, but it should be done with haste. Ford has made an explosive allegation, and she should therefore be subjected to testify immediately, and not at her leisure. I don't believe the FBI should do it. I believe that the Senate Committee should.

I have no doubt her pain is real. There however is no way to prove or disprove her claims. But she is completely wiling to torpedo a man's lifelong work with allegations that cannot be investigate without any clear closure of the case. The only justice that she will get is that he loses this life long post. There is no way to hold him to account in any other manner.

Why do you think Feinstein sat on the allegations?

How this unravels is going to be interesting to watch. I am willing to be that this is the end of Feinstein's career too.

I have been groped and harassed by men in my past (incidentally at parties). I chose to run away instead of confronting them. Can I now use this to torpedo their careers and their good names?
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Wow, you are just all over the place here. First you say it's all hearsay and lie detector tests aren't accurate, then you say that you don't doubt her pain is real, then you blame her for being willing to wreck his career for even having the gall to come forward with her accusations in the first place. Then you admit to being sexually harassed but you don't seem willing to hold your gropers accountable in case it damages their 'good name'. Then you say:

I just hope that our daughters will be taught to come forward the moment something as serious as attempted rape happens. Better yet, teach them to confront their abusers.
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Then you say:
The whole thing is very damaging for men
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What the hell? I think you need to figure out what you believe, and I'm sorry but if someone tries to commit rape, their good name isn't worth diddly****
 
Seriously said:
Tip. Who is paying for all the damage Democrats caused the USA enonomy
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All that damage

https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/25420/economics/us-economy-under-obama-2009-2017/

us-real-gdp-2007-2016-768x714.png


us-federal-deficit-768x552.png
us-bond-yields-70-2016-768x518.png


us-unemployment-05-17-768x674.png
 
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Emjay said:
Can you not see the problem with this whole thing then?
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No, the point was you called it harassment, then walked it back. It was either harassment or a little bit of naughty fun. Not both.

Emjay said:
What's so funny is that I am arguing for men's rights against men when I have always argued for women's rights on these forums. Support Ford. Don't. Whatever. The whole thing is very damaging for men.
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No one is arguing against men's rights here. If you think calling for an investigation is the same as believing her word over his - when he's been less than honest during the confirmation process - then you're getting a bit confused.
 
Emjay said:
And by what standards are you judging them by? I was at packed parties, we were all drinking and young boys do stupid things. So do young women. I just hope that our daughters will be taught to come forward the moment something as serious as attempted rape happens. Better yet, teach them to confront their abusers.
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Basic qualities, like the ones enshrined in the constitution.

Is it acceptable to accept that it is "normal" that women should just be groped however and whenever a guy deems, just because his cowardly inhibitions have been opened up by some alcohol?
 
cerebus said:
Wow, you are just all over the place here. First you say it's all hearsay and lie detector tests aren't accurate, then you say that you don't doubt her pain is real, then you blame her for being willing to wreck his career for even having the gall to come forward with her accusations in the first place. Then you admit to being sexually harassed but you don't seem willing to hold your gropers accountable in case it damages their 'good name'. Then you say:

Then you say:

What the hell? I think you need to figure out what you believe, and I'm sorry but if someone tries to commit rape, their good name isn't worth diddly****
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I am not all over the place. My point of view is simple: in the basis of law (the facts) there is nothing to pursue as the issue has prescribed. There is no basis for a civil claim either. Kavanaugh (if he is found innocent) does have a chance to pursue a civil one however, but would be career suicide at this moment. Any substantial evidence on the table is all hearsay. The witness that has been called does not corroborate the story. There is no one that can even corroborate that they were at the party or even where it took place. There should be an investigation (based within the confines of a legal investigation) to determine if Kavanaugh should be given the post, and so he, or Ford can get closure. They both should also testify next week.

From a personal perspective (the feelings, specifically mine) I believe Ford's pain is real. Something clearly happened. Was it Kavanaugh? Was it Judge? Did it transpire as she says? Was she drinking? Were they drinking? I am however at least trying to be neutral in asking for evidence before Kavanaugh gets hung out.

Some boys did some stupid things. Every women has a story, I can promise you that. Maybe ask your wife/girl-friend about unwanted touching or attention? Apologies if you are not in a relationship, or are homosexual. I can however weaponize what happened and frame the discussion for my own purposes. I can use that to make a man look like a sexual pest in this current environment. Look at the rhetoric that is being directed at both of them. Even in your mind Kavanaugh is guilty. There is zero neutrality in any of this, zero closure or justice. The Democrats know this, but they chose to thrust this woman into the spotlight in this manner.
 
 
Emjay said:
Some incredibly sad articles, especially for folks like OrbitalDawn.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/28/girl-made-false-accusation-rape-ex-boyfriend-rejected/
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/07/nyregion/innocence-project-manhattan-rape.html
https://6abc.com/ex-college-student-sent-to-prison-for-false-rape-accusation/4042954/
https://abcnews.go.com/US/woman-falsely-accused-texas-state-trooper-sexual-assault/story?id=55407714
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/ba...ook-for-men-falsely-accused-of-sexual-assault

A companion book, How to Avoid False Accusations of Rape should be required reading for all young men. To protect themselves, and to help guide them morally.
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Okay so you think she made a false accusation of attempted rape. Thanks for clearing that up.
 
Emjay said:
I am not all over the place. My point of view is simple: in the basis of law (the facts) there is nothing to pursue as the issue has prescribed. There is no basis for a civil claim either. Kavanaugh (if he is found innocent) does have a chance to pursue a civil one however, but would be career suicide at this moment. Any substantial evidence on the table is all hearsay. The witness that has been called does not corroborate the story. There is no one that can even corroborate that they were at the party or even where it took place. There should be an investigation (based within the confines of a legal investigation) to determine if Kavanaugh should be given the post, and so he, or Ford can get closure. They both should also testify next week.

From a personal perspective (the feelings, specifically mine) I believe Ford's pain is real. Something clearly happened. Was it Kavanaugh? Was it Judge? Did it transpire as she says? Was she drinking? Were they drinking? I am however at least trying to be neutral in asking for evidence before Kavanaugh gets hung out.

Some boys did some stupid things. Every women has a story, I can promise you that. Maybe ask your wife/girl-friend about unwanted touching or attention? Apologies if you are not in a relationship, or are homosexual. I can however weaponize what happened and frame the discussion for my own purposes. I can use that to make a man look like a sexual pest in this current environment. Look at the rhetoric that is being directed at both of them. Even in your mind Kavanaugh is guilty. There is zero neutrality in any of this, zero closure or justice. The Democrats know this, but they chose to thrust this woman into the spotlight in this manner.
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Two things.

First, let's look at this: "in the basis of law (the facts) there is nothing to pursue as the issue has prescribed"

(the facts) are that you're only partially correct. At a federal level the statute of limitations *has* expired... It does after five years... But... This happened in Montgomery County, Maryland, and wouldn't you know, Maryland has *no* statute of limitations for rape, attempted rape or assault. Arguing there is nothing to pursue here ignores (the facts) completely.

Second, this bit: "I can use that to make a man look like a sexual pest in this current environment."

Well then, that would put you in the 2 to 10 percentile. Less technically 'cos a large portion of rapes are never reported... But of those that are reported, studies have concluded that between 2 and 10% are false. Statistically that means there is a 90 to 98% chance that Kav is exactly who Dr Ford says he is, and that if you were having lunch with nine of your friends, you'd be the only one who'd use that to make a man look like a sexual pest.

Here's some reading from the National Sexual Violence Resource Center for ya... https://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/Publications_NSVRC_Overview_False-Reporting.pdf
 
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-tru...sified-documents-sean-hannity-request-1131511

Donald Trump has ordered the Justice Department to declassify documents relating to the ongoing investigation into his 2016 campaign after being asked to do so by Sean Hannity, Lou Dobbs and Jeanine Pirro.

"I have been asked by so many people that I respect, please—the great Lou Dobbs, the great Sean Hannity, the wonderful great Jeanine Pirro," the president told The Hill in an exclusive interview on Tuesday.
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:X3: we're in hell
 
greg0205 said:
Two things.

First, let's look at this: "in the basis of law (the facts) there is nothing to pursue as the issue has prescribed"

(the facts) are that you're only partially correct. At a federal level the statute of limitations *has* expired... It does after five years... But... This happened in Montgomery County, Maryland, and wouldn't you know, Maryland has *no* statute of limitations for rape, attempted rape or assault
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Nobody is talking about statute of limitations, but rather a complete lack of submissible evidence. No point in heading to court without that, which means no point in pursuing it further.
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
Nobody is talking about statute of limitations, but rather a complete lack of submissible evidence. No point in heading to court without that, which means no point in pursuing it further.
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Emjay said "the issue has prescribed" which, last I checked, has nothing to do with a lack of submissible evidence.
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
Fair enough, she did say that, just before an entire paragraph on how the only evidence is hearsay (aka inadmissible in a court of law).
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I know, but there were two points in the post I wanted to address directly. That was one of them and I did.

Also, this would probably be a good time to let you know that there are indeed exceptions to hearsay evidence being inadmissible in court proceedings... Both at a federal and state level.

Here you go... https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rule_803
 
greg0205 said:
there are indeed exceptions to hearsay evidence being inadmissible in court proceedings... Both at a federal and state level
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None of which would apply, but of course I'm not a lawyer or judge, just my interpretation.

For your next trick, let us assume all hearsay is allowed in this case, find me a single rape conviction where hearsay was the only evidence ... there would still be no point in pursuing the case if it cannot yield a conviction.
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
None of which would apply, but of course I'm not a lawyer or judge, just my interpretation.

For your next trick, let us assume all hearsay is allowed in this case, find me a single rape conviction where hearsay was the only evidence ... there would still be no point in pursuing the case if it cannot yield a conviction.
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I get where you're coming from. I really do... but riddle me this... Did you argue as vociferously for Bill Clinton when Juanita Broaddrick accused him of a 1978 rape in 1997?
 
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