US puts seized Iraq documents on the web

That is arguable, suffice to say that the USA definately pushed the tide a great deal, however, the Nazis were really struggling on the Eastern front, so it can be said that the Russians also assisted to stop the Nazis in thier tracks. The weather also played a large part in this. I think that without the USA getting involved, Hitler still would've spread his forces too thin in a desperate attempt to shore up the eastern front.

In addition, the Battle of Britain is really what turned the tide against Hitler. Without US involvement, I think the war would still have been won by Britain and her allies, but it would've taken longer and with more loss of life.

You also can't help but note that the only reason the US went into war, was because they were attacked by Japan. If it wasn't for that, they would never have been involved, so ultimately, they had their best interests at heart from the outset.

http://www.worldwariihistory.info/WWII/United-States.html
 
I thought the nail in the coffin was the nuclear bombings in Hiroshima and Nagasaki which just scared the **** out of everyone, and there was like a general concensus that the destruction of the planet wasn't worth it. Anyway, it kinda makes sense to me.
 
pupa said:
USA was the last country that joined WW2. l They were begged and forced into it. Was not their fight what happened thereafter?? They saved the world!

PPL forget quick.
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60 years isn't so quick. The world today is very different from that of the 1940s.

If the world had no leader. Or someone with the guts to lead, what do you think where would we be now? Maybe we would have been all German or was that also an American conspiracy? WW2 I mean!
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Why does the world have to have a leader? I don't understand. Why should having the world controlled by a power that is only only focussed on its own narrow interests a good thing? BTW if we were all German now, your wish would be fulfilled - the world would have a leader - Germany.

I think personally USA must do what they did before WW2 meddle their own bussiness and let the world rot as without the USA and their mentality this world would have been doomed.
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This is fine when you agree with the current US government position, but what happens when you don't?
Then again because I think different than the average ZAR citizen regards to USA and Apartheid and this ZAR GVT I am labeled as naive or sometimes racist. Because I am in the minority. It depend who's angle you look at it.
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A point to ponder: you may just be in the minority because you're wrong :) Seriously tho', you are welcome to your opinions, but you'll have to produce some facts if you wish to convince me. As I said before, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I merely do not believe that the USA has the best interests of the entire world as a whole at heart. Their actions are based only on furthering their own domestic agenda.
 
USA was the last country that joined WW2. l They were begged and forced into it. Was not their fight what happened thereafter?? They saved the world!
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America just loves to spread this bit of propaganda. There wouldn't have been a world to save if the allied powers hadn't put up the good fight.
If the world had no leader. Or someone with the guts to lead, what do you think where would we be now? Maybe we would have been all German or was that also an American conspiracy? WW2 I mean!
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I didn't vote for bush - did you? Since when has the world voted for america to be the leader? (besides the world sales of coke of course!)
 
pupa I can obviously see that you pro-American. And a full supporter for their cause. You know what I love about people like yourselves is that youre absolutely ignorant. You do what suits your needs. You dont give a siht about anyone else! As far as I can see you lived through Aparteihd. And from what i can guess you probaly fcuking enoyed it too!!

So given the fact that you so blatently are in favour of the US and their so called "War on Terror"??? Then that means that you not different from every other white mans theory of Divide and Rule.

Who the **** gives the US the rite to have 1000's of nukes, but other are not allowed too. The US are the biggest hypocrites under the sun. You want to talk about fairness and equality for all. You bloody dutchman were a minority of who controlled a majority. You treated the africans and everyone else with absolute dis-regard, ripped from off their dignity, kept them un-educated, torutred, murdered and raped them.

So now that the tables have turned you change your tune. I am not defending the lack of ignorance in this country today, the theft or the corruption! I am completely against it. But what were only like 12 years into democracy. You so called "non-black" perfom and shoot your mouths of sooo quickly because you being treated the same way you treated them years back. In actual fact you should consider yourself lucky that they are not treating you in exactly the same way you treated them. You think its their fault they un-educated?? I think thats your fault! Atleast they trying... More then 50% of this country is poor and un-educated. You dont sort that kind of mess out over night!

But at the same time wtf do you care! You do what suits you for the moment. You dont give a siht about anyone else. So why would you think differently for the US. I am not goint to get into whose rite and whose wrong during the course of the last 100 years of history. But at the end of the day who gives the rite to man to take the lives of others???

Who gives the rite to man to belittle and enslave other men. During the war in Iraq there has been more mayhem and destruction and the deaths of innocent people under American occupation then there ever was while Sadaam was in power. I dont really care about either sides agenda!!! I just dont like seeing the deaths of innocent people just because money/oil is at stake. And people like yourselves who got this "Lets bomb the **** out them" mentallity is what ****'s this world up!

You carry on like you know it all! People label muslims as fanatics, extremist, etc... Do any of you here even understand or have knowledge into the true nature of Islam and the relegion of it? I dont think so.... Do me a favour... Before you so easily label the Arabs and muslims as "sick" go read a book about Islam and what it stands for!! You're an ignorant fool!

People like yourselves and the Americans label us muslims as sick.. You non-muslims get drunk to the point of sihting in gardens on live TV. You rape, you murder,you torture and you steal the food out of poor peoples mouths everyday. Your so called western liberal society condones the phonication between 2 men! On one hand America gives nukes to India but tells Pakistan to 4koff!! Call me stoopid but thats just hypocracy. Your society is filled with porn, infedility, pedophiles. Yet you call us Muslims SICK!

We are bit a humble people. We live or try to live according the rules and regulations set out by the Quraan. Islam is a relegion through practice. You preach it only when you practice it correctly.... Yet the world calls us sick..... You fear what you dont understand.... And remember something... We shall defend our relegion and our land from those who wish to destroy us! Muslims have lived in peace and harmony for 1400 odd years or so...
European and Western civilisation conqured, divided and ruled over the years. You people enslaved the africans and only up until recently have you given them their freedom! Where black people were frowned upon in the so called 20 - 50 years ago... Is not the case anymore... Give an oscar to Denzel and Halie Barry and let the blacks shut up! Now that the blacks arent a problem anymore, and once you have brainwashed them into your so called western and liberal way of thinking... Who else doenst follow rules of engagement and way of life??? Hey look its the Muslims!!! Lets go start a fight with them! So now we the new nation to step into the place of blacks to take beating. So be it?

If you let your ignorance get the better of you then so be it... I love how the Americans commit a crime against Humanity then label it as the good of mankind and Democracy for all... While there more poverty and poor people.
You people talk like you have done nothing wrong, and that you are all so innocent in your ways.... Just remember something, everything in this universe has a balance... And what goes around comes around!! I mean take the example of you dutchman. You ruled and dominated, Now the tables have turned and you are victims to your own actions. Always remember that everything has a full circle lifecyle... Everything turns... Every circle turns... Every civilizatioin that has risen has fallen! When you return to the dust that were created from you will be judged for your actions! Whether you believe in God or not... It dont make a difference. God has send his messengers and his relegions... You think he cares for those who believe him or not... YOu get the ignorant and you get the believers! We all will be judged one day for our actions...

The difference between me and you is that I dont have to resort to fighting to prove my point. I dont go about shooting my mouth off so easily. I respect everyone and everything. Those who treat me with respect and dignity will get the same in return. Coming from a nation of so much wrong do'ers you label us as Sick... I think you very blinded as to what is sick and what is not sick?? If i were you i'd go back to school to learn to learn what is right and what is wrong.!!
 
rsd said:
I hate conspircay theories, but if you were the US would you:

a) release random documents not knowing what they contain
b) carefully selected documents that make the american public think "damn, bush was right to go to war!"

Propaganda for the information age. I have to hand it to them, it's very smart.
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you forgot
c) Manufacture documents, and claim they are genuine documents found in Iraq.
 
moosag said:
pupa I can obviously see that you pro-American. And a full supporter for their cause. You know what I love about people like yourselves is that youre absolutely ignorant. You do what suits your needs. You dont give a siht about anyone else! As far as I can see you lived through Aparteihd. And from what i can guess you probaly fcuking enoyed it too!!

.!!
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Moosag. I did not read through the rest of your post. I read the first sentence and realised it is not even worth wasting my time on it . It is the typical hate crap the new South african nation have become. Reverse racism and all the other crap we see day to day with the help from the GVT BEE and AA and guys like you

Yes I grew up during the racist years, I ate chicken blood boiled in a tin in a Kaya with my black friends. I had more black friends than I ever had white friends. My kids friends around me, my neighbours, is mostly black and Indian. They run in my house like my kids. My boy have sleep overs there.

If that makes me a racist then let it be so. I never harmed or denied a black his achievements in fact a lot do better than me and I respect them for it.

Typical of your kind to say what you started to say. If you hear anyone supporting USA and Israel then they must be racist. From your tone in the first sentence I can also sum You up!

You are a reverse racist. You hate your past and takes it out on any white man you see, blaming everyone for what you experienced. You will be one of the first to do the ZIM thing and kill the whites for what you believe they did to you. I inhereted the past like you I did not agree with it, neither partook in it.

Thus go throw your racist rants around where it matters as none of my coloured and black neighbours have your attitude.

PS

By the way it's not my fault God created superior nations like the USA, Where were Africa when they created nukes. It their right to do as they please and have nothing to do with you or me. Do not call me what you want because you hate the American superiority above yourself!
 
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You know what i am so glad you just posted what you did. You've made yourself look like a fool once more. First of all there was no mention of any "racism". I never said you racist and i never said i am racist. And the fact that you have type out how many black friend you have and how you treated the black peopl with justice etc... Means you feeling guilty about something....

First of all you label Muslims and Arabs as sick! Then you wont read my whole post. Then you label me as being racist! Then you go on to say
By the way it's not my fault God created superior nations like the USA
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which shows how arrogant and ignorant you are.

I got no problems with the dutchment, black or coloureds. Or anyone else for that matter. I am merely pointing out to you what your ancestors have left behind for you. Yet you sit here and complain about how unfair you being treated. So I ask you during the times of apartheid what did you do to stop it??? If you did not agree with it, then what did you do for its cause??? I dont see your name on the list of Freedom Fighters for this Country!

You see your problem is that you too ignorant. You whole post was about how i am part of this reverse racist new SA Community. And how many black friends you have. Your post might have had merit had you not said "Its not your fault god created nations like the USA". You shot yourelf in the foot on that one. Neither could you answer me, validating your statement that Arabs and muslims are sick. I bet you dont even know the difference between a Hindu Indian and a Muslim Indian. I'll even bet you dont know what the difference is between different kind of indians. Which just shows how plain old DUM you are! You no different to the Bush's, Sadaam's or even Telkom's of this world!!

Youre a sour old white man, who follows the masses like a sheep. Youre just a follower. The fact that you could not even make sense of my post, and only read the parts of "racism" and not see the bigger picture? Just shows how narrow minded you are!

BTW If you have a response to this rather PM me. And we can chat about this privately.
This is a forum about broadband! Lets not turn it into a political landscape..
My Apologies to anyone if i have offended you or anything like that. Also my apologies for posting this kind of info on broadband forum!
 
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pupa said:
Maybe I am naive but do YOU really think the world will be a better place without the USA? C'mon.
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Probably, who can say?

The USA only really started to have dominance over the world from the 1940's onward, when after the war, an arms race between them and Russia led to the cold war and led to the situation we see today in the Middle East.

After the fall of the Nazis, the US basically took onboard German rocket science and the scientists to go with it.

The rest, as they say, is history.

The key thing about history, is that you do need to go back into the past to figure out the present and try to predict the future. Viewing incidents in isolation leads to misinterpretation.

If you really want to go back a bit further, dig back another 150 years from the 1940's and the British Empire, to the birth of the USA as a nation.

Investigate the policies that Britain put into place in thier "colonies"

Go back further to the Roman Empire and start to piece together where things may be headed now, as history repeats itself.
 
Before we take this thread any further - lets state upfront - Bush and his cronies are not America! Or any of the tremendous things america have done for the world.

@moosag - your rant? Reminds me of similar muslim images on tv (probably set up by bush and his cronies.)

Let's all take a relaxation pill - it's the way of the Western World! :D
 
Sorry Kilo... Point taken I wont rant! But i also wont stand for statements made by pupa when he says
These arabs and muslims are sick and the world will rue what they allowed to develop
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I will stand and defend myself :)
 
moosag said:
You know what i am so glad you just posted what you did. You've made yourself look like a fool once more. First of all there was no mention of any "racism". I never said you racist and i never said i am racist. And the fact that you have type out how many black friend you have and how you treated the black peopl with justice etc... Means you feeling guilty about something....
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Again I did not read the post just the first sentence. Your intelegence defys logic. You stated I enjoyed Racism. You are the fool and an idiot on top of that. I did not say ALL muslims are Sick. From your rant that is the impression you leave. Thats your opinion and if the shoe fits then wear it. I refered to the sick muslims, the extremists and the terrorists. That is what the discussion was about. I had muslim friends, true muslims not the so called muslims as we see in the media today. Dr Mohamed and his sons in Lenasia. I visited there for two weeks. During the apartheid years Yes! I have the utmost respect and love for them and such persons that showed so much compasion to the poor and needy and human kind. Have many a nice story to tell. They are not what we see in the media and are not against me and the other as you tagged me racists.

Rather look at your sick attitude you showed here on respose of my maybe poorly worded comment on the USA. That is what you are. Not me.

And no I have nothing to feel guilty about or need to hide. Again your sick perception of any persion commenting that they agree with the USA and Israels.

God! I wonder what you will say here if a Jew post his opinion. You showed your colors and any respect I could have had for you is lost! so againt post your racist cr@p somewhere else. There could be a few Muslim extremist forums on the net. I never browsed for one but maybe it will suit you!

I never stated I treated anybody with JUSTICE thats your mind at work. I treated them with respect. Those who earned it like Mandella and many more.

Anyway Rant and blame me for your hate. I will not read your posts nor will I comment on another. Have no time to deal with sick and hatefull fanatic comments
 
moosag said:
Sorry Kilo... Point taken I wont rant! But i also wont stand for statements made by pupa when he says

I will stand and defend myself :)
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If you are part of the sick extremist terrorist groups and the shoe fits then so be it. Your perception again. Youre mind is playing tricks with you. Shame, need someone to blame, My shoulders are big! Cry if you want fact is I did not say what you make out. You went on defense with your racist cr@p instaed of just questioning my meaning. If you agree that it is okay to go out and murder and kill innocent people under the umbrella of your religion then that is your mindset, DO NOT MAKE IT MINE!

PS Moosag. Do not PM me with your sick attitude. Post here. I will not read your cr@p. You tagged me I understand You now! let it be
 
bb_matt said:
Investigate the policies that Britain put into place in thier "colonies"

Go back further to the Roman Empire and start to piece together where things may be headed now, as history repeats itself.
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Yes, I agree! A lot of things were inherited from the British colonies. A lot of it me and my generation gets blamed for come from them, their institutions. They used locals as slaves and did not mix with them. I do not like to be blamed for that as I was born eons later.

Anyway Yes, the biggest damage unfortunately to our (Afrikaner) reputation was by the HNP and AWB. Sick PPL like the muslim extrimists Moosag is defending with vigour based on my poorly worded post.
 
I wont even bother to comment on what you've just said. You've soooo missed the point. WTF are you talking about anyways??? You jump from one topic to the next then to another one then back to the first topic???

I PM'ed you coz I dont think we should be posting about this on a public forum that focuses on "BROADBAND ISSUES"... You have your views... I have mine... So we sort it out between the 2 of us... If you cant even engage on a 1 to 1 "Private" conversation... Then dont worry... I am the extremist Muslim, who condones the killing of innocent ppl... I am the one who hides behind the umbrella of my relegion... I am part of what Bush Calls the "Axis of Evil"... And you and people like you are angles on earth. I vote you for president of South Africa... I am sick I am mad i am all the things you say i am.

So when you man enough, and you take your head out your crack PM me. then we can have a proper conversation.
 
moosag said:
I wont even bother to comment on what you've just said. You've soooo missed the point. WTF are you talking about anyways??? You jump from one topic to the next then to another one then back to the first topic???

I PM'ed you coz I dont think we should be posting about this on a public forum that focuses on "BROADBAND ISSUES"... You have your views... I have mine... So we sort it out between the 2 of us... If you cant even engage on a 1 to 1 "Private" conversation... Then dont worry... I am the extremist Muslim, who condones the killing of innocent ppl... I am the one who hides behind the umbrella of my relegion... I am part of what Bush Calls the "Axis of Evil"... And you and people like you are angles on earth. I vote you for president of South Africa... I am sick I am mad i am all the things you say i am.

So when you man enough, and you take your head out your crack PM me. then we can have a proper conversation.
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No comment not worth it! Maybe one. I did not say you ARE any of above but I do think you are a nut case!
 
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