Very Disproportionate, Indeed

[Syndyre]

Very Disproportionate, Indeed

From January 1 until December 21, Hamas and its allies had launched exactly 1,250 rockets across the border between Gaza and Israel. Then the escalation really started: on Wednesday 70 projectile missiles landed in the Negev and its populated areas. On Thursday, more of the same. On Friday, two Palestinian girls, cousins of 5 and 12 years, were killed by a rocket that was launched in the Strip and landed in the Strip. But these unfortunates were not the targets of fire. It was just another day of blast offs into the Jewish state.

The government in Jerusalem had made it unmistakably clear that it would no longer tolerate this fire power aimed at innocent civilian life. It had been saying this for months to an increasingly skeptical and apprehensive, not to say, restive public. And to Hamas which didn't seem to care. Instead, it threatened Israel by word and follow-up deeds that confirmed the recklessness - as if confirmation was needed- of also this Palestinian "liberation" movement, the last in the long line of terrorist revolutionaries acting in the name of pathetic and blood-thirsty Palestine.

So at 11:30 on Saturday morning, according to both the Jerusalem Post and Ha'aretz, as well as the New York Times, 50 fighter jets and attack helicopters demolished some 40 to 50 sites in just about three minutes, maybe five. Message: do not **** with the Jews. At roughly noon, another 60 air-attack vehicles went after other Hamas strategic positions. Israeli intelligence reported 225 people dead, mostly Hamas military leaders with some functionaries, besides, and perhaps 400 wounded. The Palestinians announced 300 dead, probably as a reflex in order to begin their whining about disproportionate Israeli acts of war. And 600 wounded.

Frankly, I am up to my gullet with this reflex criticism of Israel as going beyond proportionality in its responses to war waged against its population with the undisguised intention of putting an end to the political expression of the Jewish nation. Within hours, Nicolas Sarkozy was already taking up the cudgel of French righteousness and pronouncing the actually quite sober Israeli response to the continuous war on its borders "disproportionate." Enough. What would be proportionate, oh, so so proportionate apparently, are those tried-and-true half measures to contain Hamas that have never worked. Remember that in 2005 Israel ceded Gaza to the Palestinians waiting and hoping that they would make something of a civil society of their territory, civil for their own and civil to their neighbors. It was not to be.

There is only small likelihood that Hamas has learned its lesson. These Sunni fanatics are still supported by the Shi'a fanatics in Iran. And they are also backed by the House of Saud which cannot be seen to be turning its back on Sunni piety. Gaza is the only place in the Middle East where Tehran and Riyadh are allied. In both Lebanon and Iraq, they are the bankrollers (and more than bankrollers) of hostile sectarian forces engaged in killing each other. Thus, Hamas has still some rope with which to play. Cash, after all, is a great deluder.

The current warfare will go on a bit longer. If there is a pause and if I were giving advice to the Israelis, this is what I would say to Hamas and to the people of Gaza: "If a rocket or missile is launched against us, if you take captive one of our soldiers (as you have held one for two and a half years), if you raise a new Intifada against us, there will be an immediate response. And it will be very disproportionate. Proportion does not work."

No sooner had I written these last words that Khaled Meshal, the Hamas leader exiled in Damascus (which also apparently pines to make peace with Israel), announced the beginning of the Third Intifada.

I can't argue with this, what's the value to Israel of being proportionate against a people and a region that want their destruction?

 

[rwenzori]

The government in Jerusalem had made it unmistakably clear that it would no longer tolerate this fire power aimed at innocent civilian life.

Yes, and they'll achieve their aims no matter how many civilians they have to bomb, maim and kill to do so.

 

[marine1]

Timne for Israel to end this fiasco once and for all. There can be no end to this until these terrorists are deal with in the language they understand.

 

[marine1]

Yes, and they'll achieve their aims no matter how many civilians they have to bomb, maim and kill to do so.

Once again your propaganda doesnt show the fact that Israel warned the civilians to leave the area, they chose not to so.....

 

[Syndyre]

Yes, and they'll achieve their aims no matter how many civilians they have to bomb, maim and kill to do so.

Its hard to know who's really a civilian in the Palestinians case because they don't exactly have a regular military force, how many of those are really civilians? Obviously some are and its a tragedy but there's a big difference between Israel which tries to avoid civilians casualties and Hamas which actively tries to achieve them.

 

[rwenzori]

Once again your propaganda doesnt show the fact that Israel warned the civilians to leave the area, they chose not to so.....

So that excuses their actions? Nope, I wouldn't think so myself.

 

[d0b33]

Once again your propaganda doesnt show the fact that Israel warned the civilians to leave the area, they chose not to so.....

Where do you go when you're locked inside a prison where there are no zones to differentiate between Hamas zones and Civilian zones? they are packed in like sardines... Pretty smart logic there by the wise Israelis.

 

[marine1]

Fixed.

Where do you go when you're locked inside a prison where there are no zones to differentiate between Hamas zones and Civilian zones? they are packed in like sardines... Pretty smart logic there by the wise Hamas.

 

[rwenzori]

Its hard to know who's really a civilian in the Palestinians case because they don't exactly have a regular military force, how many of those are really civilians? Obviously some are and its a tragedy but there's a big difference between Israel which tries to avoid civilians casualties and Hamas which actively tries to achieve them.

Probably quite a lot. But your argument about who is a civilian or not works the other way too. I don't believe for a moment that Israel tries to avoid civilian casualties.

 

[d0b33]

Fixed.

Rabbi Yisroel Weiss might disagree...

 

[Syndyre]

Probably quite a lot. But your argument about who is a civilian or not works the other way too.

Not really, its relatively easy to differentiate between a cafe and a military base.

 

[marine1]

Rabbi Yisroel Weiss might disagree...

Tell me how many times have you quoted him? Is he the only one you can quote? ROFL

 

[d0b33]

Tell me how many times have you quoted him? Is he the only one you can quote? ROFL

No, just like the way no one tries to explain it away because the anti-Semitic angle would be moot...

 

[Alan]

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_spine/archive/2008/12/27/very-disproportionate-indeed.aspx

I can't argue with this, what's the value to Israel of being proportionate against a people and a region that want their destruction?

I wonder what the casualty count would be if Israel indiscriminately launched 1 250 artillery shells into Gaza. Would be a "proportionate response"

Probably quite a lot. But your argument about who is a civilian or not works the other way too. I don't believe for a moment that Israel tries to avoid civilian casualties.

Yes because they never warned of a retaliation nor use guided munitions

 

[Frankie]

No, just like the way no one tries to explain it away because the anti-Semitic angle would be moot...

Would you like a few links to Muslim clerics preaching "peace" , the same kind of "peace" Hamarse aspire to ?

Recall when someone in the other camp spoke out - Rushdie was threatened with death (the peaceful kind of death).

 

[Syndyre]

No, just like the way no one tries to explain it away because the anti-Semitic angle would be moot...

There's no need to explain it away. He's entitled to his opinion but being a Rabbi and Jewish doesn't make it automatically valid. Referring to the "Zionist regime" hardly makes him sound objective.

 

[rwenzori]

Not really, its relatively easy to differentiate between a cafe and a military base.

So they only destroy "military bases"? C'mon, you know that's not true.

 

[marine1]

There's no need to explain it away. He's entitled to his opinion but being a Rabbi and Jewish doesn't make it automatically valid. Referring to the "Zionist regime" hardly makes him sound objective.

Excellent point.

 

[Syndyre]

I wonder what the casualty count would be if Israel indiscriminately launched 1 250 artillery shells into Gaza. Would be a "proportionate response"

Israel's powerful, therefore they shouldn't use that power to protect their interests. Hamas is relatively weak, therefore all their actions are justified. That seems to be the [-]propaganda[/-] logic used.

 

[marine1]

I wonder what the casualty count would be if Israel indiscriminately launched 1 250 artillery shells into Gaza. Would be a "proportionate response"

Can you imagine? There would be no more Gaza or Hamas, maybe thats what they should do. Israel are like the cops, always have to act within the law, Ham A$$ are like the criminals, always allowed to act outside of the law.