Visiting a Homeopath

[Necuno]

Ridiculous stance is ridiculous.

You sure do... self control is good hey or else we must fall into help-me-scripts: mommy mommy hold my hand I can't not help myself

 

[Necuno]

Still not working. He missed the purpose of ignore is to not respond as well.

I don't ignore people by using scripts, I can very well do this on my own and choose not to read or response... besides censorship is a bitch even if its self inflicted.

 

[DrJohnZoidberg]

I don't ignore people by using scripts, I can very well do this on my own and choose not to read or response... besides censorship is a bitch even if its self inflicted.

You obviously haven't been reading the drivel posted by Swa as long as we have. There is a point where it's no longer censorship but a trash filter.

 

[porchrat]

You sure do... self control is good hey or else we must fall into help-me-scripts: mommy mommy hold my hand I can't not help myself

I can decide not to read his posts just fine without the ignore function but then I would have to scroll through the posts that are sometimes so long that he breaks them up into multi-posts of pure crap taking up whole forum pages just to get to the good stuff. This just makes the forum easier to browse. Again I made this abundantly clear.

Would it help you to better comprehend this if I start using giant red all caps font to highlight what would have been obvious to most?

You definitely need to start mining your own ore to smelt your own metal to construct your own cars instead of buying them. Stop letting car manufacturers hold your hand.

 

[Necuno]

You obviously haven't been reading the drivel posted by Swa as long as we have. There is a point where it's no longer censorship but a trash filter.

I have read some of it of course. I just don't let it bother me as much or know when to stop replying... handy skill you know.

 

[HapticSimian]

All-red fonts won't help... must be multi-colour.

 

[DrJohnZoidberg]

I have read some of it of course. I just don't let it bother me as much or know when to stop replying... handy skill you know.

Your self control is legendary then. Unfortunately not all of us have this gift and sometimes cannot help pointing out bs when it's presented to us. The ignore function prevents us from feeding the troll.

 

[porchrat]

Actually mining your own ore is just holding your hand over the act of carving a Flintstone style rock wheel out of some boulder ... or better yet just dragging the boulder around in it's original form. Stop letting vehicle manufacturers hold your hand when it comes to transporting things. Carry them yourself. Modern technology designed to make our lives easier is just hand holding needless garbage replacing our own abilities.

I mean really just go back to living in a mudhut or a cave or something if you genuinely feel that stance is at all reasonable.

 

[HapticSimian]

Your self control is legendary then. Unfortunately not all of us have this gift and sometimes cannot help pointing out bs when it's presented to us. The ignore function prevents us from feeding the troll.

Further, making it known with a facetious post or two like porch's of earlier that [-]Swa, and only Swa[/-] a specific poster is no longer being engaged on the content of their posts at all is a message in itself.

 

[porchrat]

Your self control is legendary then. Unfortunately not all of us have this gift and sometimes cannot help pointing out bs when it's presented to us. The ignore function prevents us from feeding the troll.

Meh I could easily not reply to the muppet without the ignore function. The ignore function isn't even a way to stop you being able to read someone's posts. You can just hit that link thing next to the post and it shows you the whole post. IMO it is only really effective to help cut down on the scroll time through threads and keeps the good stuff nice and close together. You still need self control.

 

[Sherbang]

Countless studies? Are you kidding? Big Pharma has no reason to do studies on something they can't patent to make money from. I would like Big Pharma to be held to the strict unattainable standards the few studies of homeopathy were done on while subjecting homeopathy to their biased studies "showing" the "efficacy" and "safety" on their drugs. Yes continue to ignore everything you don't agree with like you do with everything in life. You really make yourself look like an idiot replying to something you don't even see.

Actually the same standards are used in any type of scientific study, whether it's by Big Pharma or Little Homeopath.
If studies do not meet these standards they cannot be considered accurate or reliable, irrespective of who did the study.
It's called a randomised, controlled trial and can be done on almost any intervention you can think of in order to determine the effects of such intervention. It's not complicated.
If you wanted to test homeopathy, for example, (or any drug) it's simple:

You take, say, 200 people, and divide them at random into two groups of 100. All of the patients visit their homeopath, they all get a homeopathic prescription at the end (because homeopaths love to prescribe pills even more than doctors) for whatever it is that the homeopath wants to prescribe, and all the patients take their prescription to the homeopathic pharmacy. Every patient can be prescribed something completely different, an "individualised" prescription - it doesn't matter.

Now here is the twist: one group gets the real homeopathy pills they were prescribed (whatever they were), and the patients in the other group are given fake sugar pills. Crucially, neither the patients, nor the people who meet them in the trial, know who is getting which treatment.

This trial has been done, time and time again, with homeopathy, and when you do a trial like this, you find, overall, that the people getting the placebo sugar pills do just as well as those getting the real, posh, expensive, technical, magical homeopathy pills.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/nov/16/sciencenews.g2

If this is considered by you to be some kind of strict unattainable standard - well there's your problem

 

[porchrat]

LOL Swa punting homoeopathy without being aware of the studies. Also assuming "Big Pharma" are the only ones doing studies.

See this is why he is on ignore. It is a waste of time just scrolling through the garbage, let alone actually reading it.

 

[Swa]

Would it help you to better comprehend this if I start using giant red all caps font to highlight what would have been obvious to most?

It would help if you don't respond at all. A response is still a response. If something is obvious it should be obvious to everybody but if you need to point it out it means it's not obvious.

 

[DrJohnZoidberg]

Interesting read: http://t.co/yhWCAA723l

 

[RiaX]

uhm well he is on ignore because it saves space. He types so much and its all garbage. Debating with him is like debating with a wall. The only way to make it move is with a lot of alcohol...

WRT to antacids its a bit silly to say change your diet and bla bla you have heartburn NOW you need relief NOW

id like to see a ultradilute HCL neutralise that

 

[porchrat]

id like to see a ultradilute HCL neutralise that

Considering it is water it could definitely help against heartburn. The moment you feel heartburn just down that homoeopathic solution (about 300-400ml of it should do... doesn't even have to be an HCl one). That way the solution will wash the acid back before it is able to start causing too much damage.

Yay homoeopathy works... sort of.

 

[RiaX]

hmmmm .... I wonder. Ive had heartburn water has never relieved it lol

BIG PHARMA is secretly adding stuff to our water to give us heartburn so that we would buy more antacids ... those bastids D:

(enter fluorine conspiracy nuts)

 

[Swa]

Actually the same standards are used in any type of scientific study, whether it's by Big Pharma or Little Homeopath.
If studies do not meet these standards they cannot be considered accurate or reliable, irrespective of who did the study.
It's called a randomised, controlled trial and can be done on almost any intervention you can think of in order to determine the effects of such intervention. It's not complicated.
If you wanted to test homeopathy, for example, (or any drug) it's simple:


http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/nov/16/sciencenews.g2

If this is considered by you to be some kind of strict unattainable standard - well there's your problem

Nope they're not. When there's big money to be made there's big money to spend. Drug trials can afford to be of a better quality than the ones done by independent researchers. With that said it looks like Big Pharma doesn't need this quality in any case. I refer you to the trials on statins showing their "efficacy" (often in double percentages) and "safety." To say that subsequent independent trials are unable to replicate the results is an understatement and as much as 75% of people have noticeable side effects with 25% being so severe they stop their medication. If Big Pharma can't attain the high standards they set for alternative medicine so that they have to cook their results how can they try to impose these on others?

Apparently you're not familiar with the term research bias. It's relatively easy to influence results to get a wanted positive or negative outcome or to select criteria that will give the desired result. The author of the Guardian article doesn't seem to have a clue what he's talking about. 200 people are generally not enough for a conclusive result. You will get some trials showing positive results and some showing negative results. There is your quality issue. Big Pharma generally isn't hampered by such limited studies that can be dismissed.

Here's the other issue: "There is only one conclusion you can draw from this observation. Essentially, when a trial gives a negative result, alternative therapists, homeopaths or the homeopathic companies simply do not publish it."
Simply wrong. The author is trying to invoke publication bias to try and explain why studies show positive results. Fair enough it is a real phenomenon but it doesn't however negate the positive studies. Contrary to the claim that "time and time again" the studies don't show any measurable result they actually do show one. There are other conclusions to draw as well like the negative studies being at fault and biased so they are rejected because of poor quality instead, but for some reason the author doesn't consider this or the fact that publication bias applies equally to Big Pharma.

But the final nail in the coffin is actually the first paragraph: "Time after time, properly conducted scientific studies." So in essence only studies considered properly conducted are seen as valid and they are seen as properly conducted only when showing the desired result and it's because of this: "It doesn't all add up ... The 'science' behind homeopathy." The author is not a true and honest skeptic. In his mind and with his false definition of homeopathy (again) it can't work so the only conclusion he can draw is that the studies showing it does must be wrong. That is a fallacy.

Interesting read: http://t.co/yhWCAA723l

Interesting indeed. The first comment says it all:
"One of the tenets of a
good debate is that both parties be informed about the topic being debated. The
Royal London Homeopathic Hospital saved thousands of lives during epidemics of
cholera, yellow fever and many other illnesss over the last 100 years. Over a
hundred thousand board certified homeopathic medical doctors practice world
wide. The (highly conservative) Swiss government just concluded, after an
exhaustive multi year study that homeopathy is effective and should be incorporated
into their medical system. Homeopathic remedies have proved effective in babies
and animals, and thousands of farmers rely on it to prevent and treat disease.
So much for placebo effect.
The author might rather have spent his vitriol on criticisizing the
pharmaceutical industry whose products are a leading cause of death in the UK.

Anyone with an open mind could learn about the effectiveness of
homeopathy. Here is a partial list of studies which cover many areas of
homeopathy."

 

[porchrat]

hmmmm .... I wonder. Ive had heartburn water has never relieved it lol

BIG PHARMA is secretly adding stuff to our water to give us heartburn so that we would buy more antacids ... those bastids D:

(enter fluorine conspiracy nuts)

Once the burn has set in you do unfortunately need something more potent but apparently if you drink the water just as the feeling of heart burn sets in then it can wash the acid back out of the oesophagus and provided the acid hasn't created any major irritation or damage yet you don't end up with heartburn. I've done it a few times and it seems to work quite well.

You could also stay upright for the rest of your life... that would work too. We could call it "Vertiopathy". I'll set up a school to teach it and everything. I'll make a mint!!

 

[RiaX]

rofl. Today I saw one lady convincing someone to buy those power balance bands ... the first time she pushed down with all her strength the second time she was pretending and the idiotic lady bought the band