Vodacom CEO explains BlackBerry problems and plans

[BinaryJack]

I didn't say 3-5GB was a reasonable limit, in fact I didn't even try to discuss what a reasonable limit is, or should be. Since previously there was NO LIMIT, a limit of 3-5GB would need to set, in order to catch the abusers, without raising eyebrows from the 98% who aren't abusive. I also said this should be done quietly in order to see the effect it has on overall performance of the BIS service. So please get off your high horse, and read the fskking post again, before opening your kuunt hole and spewing your schitt all over our civil discussions.

Bahahahahaha!!!
I like you!

 

[Andysor]

I didn't say 3-5GB was a reasonable limit, in fact I didn't even try to discuss what a reasonable limit is, or should be. Since previously there was NO LIMIT, a limit of 3-5GB would need to set, in order to catch the abusers, without raising eyebrows from the 98% who aren't abusive. I also said this should be done quietly in order to see the effect it has on overall performance of the BIS service. So please get off your high horse, and read the fskking post again, before opening your kuunt hole and spewing your schitt all over our civil discussions.

Haha, the irony of your post is not lost on me ...

You are saying that abusers are those that use more than 3-5GB. That to me is an unrealistically large number when you look at what the service is designed for. The only way it can cost as little as it does is if people use it for what it was meant, and allowing "abusers" to use 3-5GB will not address this fundamental problem.

 

[BinaryJack]

The only way it can cost as little as it does is if people use it for what it was meant, and allowing "abusers" to use 3-5GB will not address this fundamental problem.

You are misrepresenting the "fundamental problem".
The fundamental problem is that VC refused to spend money and upgrade their infrastructure to accomodate the use or at the very least implement a product that allows the BIS users to get Tru Unlimited Internet at a monthly data cost which could allow the current users at least some modicum of control and still allow VC to get access to even more money to upgrade the BIS infrastucture.
VC has confirmed that they have been aware of the BIS service degradation due to abuse for a few months already and opted to do nothing...aside from implementing a cap of 100MB compressed BIS data for 48hours.

 

[macboer]

This is actually not the first time VC knows about this.
Jannie has answered some pointed questions I had with clear answers that makes it clear that VC has a) been monitoring data usage since day 1 and b) that a solution is required for a few months already and that a decision was made because they (VC) could not wait anymore.

Thanks for this one! Was thinking about it, and you've proven that Uys is kindof retarded...or rather, thinks we are retarded.

 

[falcon786]

Haha, the irony of your post is not lost on me ...

You are saying that abusers are those that use more than 3-5GB. That to me is an unrealistically large number when you look at what the service is designed for. The only way it can cost as little as it does is if people use it for what it was meant, and allowing "abusers" to use 3-5GB will not address this fundamental problem.

Oh please ,enough with the backward thinking lets be progressive already.......why do the states have reasonable limits like 5gb and we shouldnt?

 

[BinaryJack]

why do the states have reasonable limits like 5gb and we shouldnt?

B.U.D.G.E.T.S.
I.N.F.R.A.S.T.R.U.C.T.U.R.E.

 

[jannievanzyl]

You are misrepresenting the "fundamental problem".
The fundamental problem is that VC refused to spend money and upgrade their infrastructure to accomodate the use or at the very least implement a product that allows the BIS users to get Tru Unlimited Internet at a monthly data cost which could allow the current users at least some modicum of control and still allow VC to get access to even more money to upgrade the BIS infrastucture.
VC has confirmed that they have been aware of the BIS service degradation due to abuse for a few months already and opted to do nothing...aside from implementing a cap of 100MB compressed BIS data for 48hours.

Human, that's just not true. We've been upgrading the links like crazy for a long time. Often more than once per month. Yesterday it had a big upgrade (again). We've been working with RIM on this for months as well.

So, on what do you base your perception that 'nothing' has been done or VC 'refuse' to spend money on infrastructure? Where do you think the billions we've blown on infrastructure so far this year have gone?

The "fundamental problem is with these bulk downloaders who use the service way outside of its design parameters, we can upgrade for ever and it'll just saturate immediately.

As the peeps above pointed out, when you do a business plan, you base your price on expected usage profiles. BIS is no different.

A 'Tru Unlimited Internet' product on mobile is quite possible, but it'll cost the wrong side of R10K per month, trust me. You can't expect the same product for R59/month surely.

 

[DJ...]

The above issue aside, what guys SHOULD have done, is to quietly set the limit to 3-5GB, after which the service would be throttled down to slower speeds, or better still, cut off. You should have done his without telling anyone, not even your PR division, and then monitor what it is going on. See if it makes a difference to performance. Those being abusive, would get slowed down drastically, or cut off, and they would contact Vodacom to complain about their BIS service not working anymore. You could then decide how to deal with these guys, diplomatically, quietly, out of the public eye.

One of those abusers would have let it slip that VC had introduced a soft-cap on BIS and it would have turned out even worse for them from a PR perspective. They also have to change the Ts and Cs of a contract to allow for this and we know that this places them in contravention of the CPA, based on input from lawyers specialising in consumer protection. While your suggestion makes sense on the surface, when you think about it, it's simply not the way any company should be doing business (behind their own consumer's back, to their detriment)...

 

[BinaryJack]

Human, that's just not true. We've been upgrading the links like crazy for a long time. Often more than once per month. Yesterday it had a big upgrade (again). We've been working with RIM on this for months as well.

So, on what do you base your perception that 'nothing' has been done or VC 'refuse' to spend money on infrastructure? Where do you think the billions we've blown on infrastructure so far this year have gone?

The "fundamental problem is with these bulk downloaders who use the service way outside of its design parameters, we can upgrade for ever and it'll just saturate immediately.

As the peeps above pointed out, when you do a business plan, you base your price on expected usage profiles. BIS is no different.

A 'Tru Unlimited Internet' product on mobile is quite possible, but it'll cost the wrong side of R10K per month, trust me. You can't expect the same product for R59/month surely.

Duly noted and I stand corrected.
This was before my "Vodacom Solution Thread."

 

[DJ...]

Human, that's just not true. We've been upgrading the links like crazy for a long time. Often more than once per month. Yesterday it had a big upgrade (again). We've been working with RIM on this for months as well.

Where were those press releases? Those are the sorts of things customers want to hear...

So, on what do you base your perception that 'nothing' has been done or VC 'refuse' to spend money on infrastructure?

Probably based on little communication from Vodacom's side regarding this. When a BIS user has problems with the service, they want to hear about investment in the infrastructure long before they hear about all of them being punished for using said service. Where do RIM's responsibilities in this respect begin and end?

The "fundamental problem is with these bulk downloaders who use the service way outside of its design parameters, we can upgrade for ever and it'll just saturate immediately.

So what are RIM and Vodacom going to do to resolve this now? Let's stop harping on about punishing users and the bad PR it caused - let's start hearing alternatives, which according to Pieter Uys have been discussed already. Engaging with us about the proposed solutions could gain you some reasonable insight into the public reactions when they're implemented - something Vodacom apparently need some help with, because your PR team have lost all touch with reality it seems...

As the peeps above pointed out, when you do a business plan, you base your price on expected usage profiles. BIS is no different.

Did nobody anticipate abuse when the business plan was drawn up? That seems very, very short-sighted. If you did, what was proposed to prevent this at the time?

A 'Tru Unlimited Internet' product on mobile is quite possible, but it'll cost the wrong side of R10K per month, trust me. You can't expect the same product for R59/month surely.

Are your costs really upwards of 4000% percent more than fixed line operators? They're not, because I've seen your financials. Where does this R10k figure come from then?

 

[falcon786]

B.U.D.G.E.T.S.
I.N.F.R.A.S.T.R.U.C.T.U.R.E.

er...you not making sense,our networks had decent infrastructue before the states...we even had 3g before them.

Look at the size of usa vs size of South Africa,square kilometers....hence im not comparing to europe where the population density is much greater than here(small area with lots of people)

So tht argument does not hold when comparing to the USA....and I'm sure they make around the same if not less revenue per subscriber than our networks anyway.

 

[falcon786]

er...you not making sense,our networks had decent infrastructue before the states...we even had 3g before them.

Look at the size of usa vs size of South Africa,square kilometers....hence im not comparing to europe where the population density is much greater than here(small area with lots of people)

So tht argument does not hold when comparing to the USA....and I'm sure they make around the same if not less revenue per subscriber than our networks anyway.

Ok i lie...checked it up and they have better arpu just over double compare to vodacom.
This equates to a net revenue per square kilometer just 23% less than att.

So fine make it 3-4gb then instead of 5gb.

 

[jannievanzyl]

Where were those press releases? Those are the sorts of things customers want to hear...

The moment we put out more than one press release per week, this site is accused of being a Vodacom PR site.

And we literally do hundreds of upgrades per month. But I've been toying with starting a thread where I'll post any significant network change, say new base stations, big upgrades, etc.

Would that work?

Did nobody anticipate abuse when the business plan was drawn up? That seems very, very short-sighted. If you did, what was proposed to prevent this at the time?

The initial rules RIM put in place handled it quite well. Clearly not anymore. But it's really a question for RIM, it's their product, not Vodacom's.

Are your costs really upwards of 4000% percent more than fixed line operators? They're not, because I've seen your financials. Where does this R10k figure come from then?

Probably much more than that, remember the 'last mile' is a shared resource unlike copper. And you'll be surprised how few concurrent users a single tower can handle.

 

[Ockie]

The moment we put out more than one press release per week, this site is accused of being a Vodacom PR site.

And we literally do hundreds of upgrades per month. But I've been toying with starting a thread where I'll post any significant network change, say new base stations, big upgrades, etc.

Would that work?

YESSSSSSS!!!!!! I would LOVE that!!!! Please please do it!

 

[J0n0]

And we literally do hundreds of upgrades per month. But I've been toying with starting a thread where I'll post any significant network change, say new base stations, big upgrades, etc.

Would that work?

Awesome idea Jannie! It would be very interesting to see and read about the upgrades.

 

[DJ...]

The moment we put out more than one press release per week, this site is accused of being a Vodacom PR site.

And we literally do hundreds of upgrades per month. But I've been toying with starting a thread where I'll post any significant network change, say new base stations, big upgrades, etc.

Would that work?

It's difficult to use this fiasco as a benchmark so in this case, I doubt it would have had much of an affect on the outcome. In my opinion, the onus to educate your market is on you, so merely stating that backhaul upgrades have taken place means nothing to a guy like me, for instance. What's important for me to know, is what tangible results I as a customer can expect. And as the translator of the gobbldygook, you're in the best position to do so in a proactive manner. i.e. before people question what the jargon means. A once a month press release stating what upgrades have been made and what this means for the consumer (in plain and simple English) would be of benefit to me. A thread might help, but you're reaching a small, already educated audience that way...

The initial rules RIM put in place handled it quite well. Clearly not anymore. But it's really a question for RIM, it's their product, not Vodacom's.

One has to ask themselves what changed? The release of 3G handsets? In that case it should have been anticipated in the business plan already, yonks ago. And no, it's not RIM's product from a customer's perspective - it's most certainly Vodacom's - would you not agree that a reasonable customer would assume a responsibility on Vodacom's part here? And I don't view this as a standalone RIM product - it's a joint venture in my eyes. If you're not involved in drafting or commenting on the business plan, then you're operating in the dark from the outset - not a position I'd expect Vodacom to place themselves in...

Probably much more than that, remember the 'last mile' is a shared resource unlike copper. And you'll be surprised how few concurrent users a single tower can handle.

Based on your financials for 2011, this would mean that Telkom have in excess of 4 times the number of customers that Vodacom has. Is this true? You're both spending similar amounts. What is evident is that Vodacom are investing half of what they did in 2009 in their infrastructure which is an alarming statistic.

As a futures trader, I tend not to delve too deep into company financials but just a quick look seems to tell me that your cost of doing business is certainly not 4000% more than Telkom's. Even if the infrastructure cost is true, it is then being offset to some degree in other aspects of your business, so this standalone cost cannot be used as a comparison...

 

[BinaryJack]

As DJ stated.
It is dificult for us to know what upgrades and improvements you have made if you do not communicate this through to the general public.
Perception counts.

Where is RIM in all of this? Surely they could see that this could have a negative impact on their handset sales especially when it is rather apparent that some of not all Mobile SP will be moving towards a "limitation" of some sort to reduce abuse.

 

[Andysor]

To be honest I'd be surprised if VC care that much about the 5% of BB users who use more than 100MB/month. The majority of these users would either churn to other packages/handsets or start reluctantly buying bundles. Sure, some would migrate to other networks as a show of discontent, but the major growth prospect for BB is in the lower LSM bracket, who probably won't use that much data.

Still bad PR though.

 

[InTheCube]

One has to ask themselves what changed? The release of 3G handsets? In that case it should have been anticipated in the business plan already, yonks ago. And no, it's not RIM's product from a customer's perspective - it's most certainly Vodacom's - would you not agree that a reasonable customer would assume a responsibility on Vodacom's part here? And I don't view this as a standalone RIM product - it's a joint venture in my eyes. If you're not involved in drafting or commenting on the business plan, then you're operating in the dark from the outset - not a position I'd expect Vodacom to place themselves in...

+1. Excellent points here. Jannie??

 

[jannievanzyl]

+1. Excellent points here. Jannie??

Yup, just like we have full control over what Apple does.