Vodacom CEO explains why mobile data expires

They really MUST change the profile status or whatever its called of Jannievanzyl. He is no more a telecoms expert than I am an astronaut. Spin doctor and bullshitter yes.
 
I've checked their ARPU for contract customers in SA.

It's 5 million people paying an average R390/month, slightly more than uncapped contracts in Europe and the US.

But apparently, there's no market for it as they say! :ROFL:
 
Overseas mentality when doing business with the consumer:
"Let's make a profit but not try and screw the goose that lays our golden eggs"

South African mentality when doing business with the consumer:
"Here comes that idiot again, let's rape them for all they have including their last cent"

The latter I see in almost every sector of SA business. The Afrikaans-speaking business owners are even more ruthless with this. They'll screw their own aunt for money
 
f2wohf said:
Have you been to the US, Europe, Asia where uncapped is rather the norm?
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You understand that those markets are completely different, right? Different regulatory frameworks, different geographics, demographics, etc. You are not comparing apples with apples.

We do not buy data. We buy the use of a service. Like using a tiny portion of a lane on a highway.

Why does Shameel even speak out? He should rather just not engage, as anything he says will not be considered or understood. When we have people responding with "BECAUSE, MONEY!12!2one!@", it is time to gracefully exit.

Speedster said:
I'll say it again - R15.6 billion...
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Yet, all other service providers charge around the same? Why don't you then take your money elsewhere? Vodacom, and all the other providers, operate in a free'ish market. So do you. Don't like it? Use an alternative. Competition in the market will determine a fair price.
 
Emjay said:
You understand that those markets are completely different, right? Different regulatory frameworks, different geographics, demographics, etc. You are not comparing apples with apples.
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That's exactly what I was asking for. Why is SA different or an exception? But why is SA also different from its neighbours where data is also cheaper? What makes SA so special that it must be much more expensive?

Yet, all other service providers charge around the same? Why don't you then take your money elsewhere? Vodacom, and all the other providers, operate in a free'ish market. So do you. Don't like it? Use an alternative. Competition in the market will determine a fair price.
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I've never been a Vodacom customer so that's sorted. I've had them as clients for a while actually.

Don't you think there's a formal or informal cartel in the telecoms industry? Only a few small players are trying to break the cartel but never manage to (Afrihost, Rain, iBurst...).

Execs pass from one operator to another, use the same subcons in which sometimes one of their relatives have shares, they build headquarters on land that belongs to them.

That wouldn't be out of this world, nor a first to think that the competition is heavily rigged... And it happens even in more regulated, more stringent on competition and more efficient markets (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2005/dec/02/france.internationalnews).
 
Emjay said:
Yet, all other service providers charge around the same? Why don't you then take your money elsewhere? Vodacom, and all the other providers, operate in a free'ish market. So do you. Don't like it? Use an alternative. Competition in the market will determine a fair price.
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It isn't, huge barrier to enter in regards to spectrum allocation, this means that there is little/no competition. The only one really competing is Telkom, which is why they're growing so quickly.
From May:
The growth in the mobile business was supported by 30.2% growth to 5.2 million subscribers, with the blended average revenue per user (ARPU) increasing by 10.2% to R98, Telkom said.
...
mobile service revenue up to R5.150 billion, Telkom said.

Mobile data was a major contributor to revenue with a 56.3% growth, supported by 124% growth in data usage.
https://businesstech.co.za/news/mobile/247459/telkom-reveals-strong-mobile-growth/
Click to expand...

Also, there have been tons of incidents with Vodacom and MTN price fixing.
 
f2wohf said:
I've never been a Vodacom customer so that's sorted. I've had them as clients for a while actually.

Don't you think there's a formal or informal cartel in the telecoms industry? Only a few small players are trying to break the cartel but never manage to (Afrihost, Rain, iBurst...).

Execs pass from one operator to another, use the same subcons in which sometimes one of their relatives have shares, they build headquarters on land that belongs to them.

That wouldn't be out of this world, nor a first to think that the competition is heavily rigged... And it happens even in more regulated, more stringent on competition and more efficient markets (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2005/dec/02/france.internationalnews).
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Now it's price colluding? That's quite a statement you are making about a client of yours. Vodacom has no legal obligation to answer questions about its commercial model.

If you guys want cheaper data, get ICASA to sort this out. It is not Vodacom's responsibility to lower prices.
 
Emjay said:
Now it's price colluding? That's quite a statement you are making about a client of yours. Vodacom has no legal obligation to answer questions about its commercial model.

If you guys want cheaper data, get ICASA to sort this out. It is not Vodacom's responsibility to lower prices.
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You do realize Vodacom/MTN keep getting investigation for price collusion? Happens like every second/third year. (EDIT: Accused, not investigated, two/three investigations over the last few years?)

https://www.iol.co.za/business-repo...-for-alleged-anti-competitive-conduct-8708558
as a more recent example.
 
Emjay said:
Now it's price colluding? That's quite a statement you are making about a client of yours. Vodacom has no legal obligation to answer questions about its commercial model.

If you guys want cheaper data, get ICASA to sort this out. It is not Vodacom's responsibility to lower prices.
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I'm just saying that price collusion is highly possible in an environment where everybody knows each other, where prices remain stuck and competition very mild between large operators.

They have no obligation, I have the right to ask questions nonetheless and I use it.

ICASA has been incredibly efficient and has a strong track record to prove it... :ROFL:

Are you paid by Vodacom?
 
Johnatan56 said:
You do realize Vodacom/MTN keep getting investigation for price collusion? Happens like every second/third year.

https://www.iol.co.za/business-repo...-for-alleged-anti-competitive-conduct-8708558
as a more recent example.
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Thanks

The Commission said it found that it would be unlikely to succeed in a prosecution of the specific conduct subject to Cell C's complaint.

However, the Commission said there was evidence to suggest that this conduct and other features of the market, in particular the price differentials applied for on-net and off-net calls as well as long-term subscribers' contracts, made it difficult for late entrants such as Cell C to compete effectively.


The Commission said there was, therefore, a need to look broadly into the state of competition in the mobile telephony market in South Africa, specifically at the retail level, as the market is still dominated by two mobile market players, years after the licensing of Cell C and Telkom Mobile.
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Proving that at best the competition is rigged.
 
f2wohf said:
Are you paid by Vodacom?
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Nope. But I have worked on some commercial models around broadband, roll-out of networks, and setting up operations. I agree Vodacom should try and work with the public, and implement requirements set down by ICASA according to the spirit of those regulations. But, they are a for profit business. Government should be setting policy to lower costs, maybe even incentivize it and crack down on non-compliant service providers. ICASA is useless, and the biggest cause of higher data costs. But, as usual, people lash out at the wrong party.
 
Emjay said:
Nope. But I have worked on some commercial models around broadband, roll-out of networks, and setting up operations. I agree Vodacom should try and work with the public, and implement requirements set down by ICASA according to the spirit of those regulations. But, they are a for profit business. Government should be setting policy to lower costs, maybe even incentivize it and crack down on non-compliant service providers. ICASA is useless, and the biggest cause of higher data costs. But, as usual, people lash out at the wrong party.
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What about lashing at both? The one who allows it and the one who abuses it?
 
f2wohf said:
What about lashing at both? The one who allows it and the one who abuses it?
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You want Vodacom and other mobile operators to lower its prices because you and others believe it should? Why should they? Why should you (or anyone) earn a massive salary when delivering a service? They are a for profit company. They are not going to willingly do anything that weakens them.

Their profits will continue motivating them. That's why the best way to get a company to take notice is to hit it where it hurts: in the pocket.
 
Emjay said:
You want Vodacom and other mobile operators to lower its prices because you and others believe it should? Why should they? Why should you (or anyone) earn a massive salary when delivering a service? They are a for profit company. They are not going to willingly do anything that weakens them.

Their profits will continue motivating them. That's why, the best way to get a company to take notice, is to hit it where it hurts: in the pocket.
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Then they should take out the 50 pages of CSR BS on their annual report and the lies they peddle (data prices down by 21% while the main bundles did not move at all) and not pretend to do something about it.

If nobody tells them that they should reduce it, they sure are not going to do it...

I guess I should just shut up and suck it up, that's usually how progress happens in societies. :unsure:
 
https://www.itweb.co.za/content/LPwQ5MlyjnrqNgkj

Government and regulators were found to play a key role in increasing spectrum prices through policy decisions. Administrations are able to do this by setting very high reserve prices for spectrum auctions, constricting the supply of spectrum, which forces operators to overpay, not publish a spectrum roadmap and use poor award rules.

The organisation says policies that seek to maximise state revenues can have a negative influence on consumer outcomes, including more expensive mobile services and reduced network investment.
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The South African market has had a spectrum scarcity issue for years now. There have been countless calls to government to provide clarity and fast-track spectrum allocation for the telcos.

In July 2016, the Independent Communications Authority of SA (ICASA) issued an invitationto operators to apply for licences for spectrum in the 700MHz, 800MHz and 2.6GHz bands, to be used to provide mobile broadband wireless access services.
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Let that sink in. July 2016. Two years ago.

@f2wohf, I am not saying shut up about it. How about we organise a protest outside of ICASA's office and demand answers? I was an activist in my young adult years. Some on MyBB may still be around from those days and recall how a group of us used to challenge Telkom (through protests), doing information campaigns on the radios, pamphlet drops, helping launch legal matters against Telkom in court, etc.

Some here will remember how ridiculously expensive broadband used to be. We have come a very long way in terms of our pricing tbh. And that is thanks to the market opening up and the massive investments from big companies.

Oh, and btw. One of my mentors and close friend used to be very high up in ICASA. ICASA is bogged down with so much politics and corruption, that is cannot get anything done. Some service providers even have an open door policy with some of the exec members there. Let that sink in for a moment. And no, it is not anyone from the big ones like MTN, Vodacom, Telkom, etc. Don't you think that this failure in direction and leadership will hamper the market?
 
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jannievanzyl said:
100MHz in 3.5GHz, this is good

We need different allocations in different bands to properly roll out a decent service.

1. 800) to ensure wide rural coverage and deep penetration for IoT.
2. 2 - 6GHz (3.5, for example) to ensure backfill, extra cacity. This gives a nice balance of coverage and speed. Around 1 to 1.5Gb/s for 100MHz at the moment.
3. 20GHz< (28GHz in SA likely) to give those massive high-speed backhaul links. We've shown 17Gb/s using 800MHz of 28GHz.
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Excuse my ignorance, if the above criteria are met, will Vodacom guarantee much lower data costs, place us on par with Europe and the US?
 
whatwhat said:
Not sure if you read that right, it's R150 for 4GB of data per month in Lesotho from Vodacom. And they offer upto 24 GB for R850 a month.

South Africa is R150 for 1GB from Vodacom, and R299-R399 a month for 3 or 5GB respectively.
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Oh I read it perfectly and understand it. In Lesotho Vodacom charges market rates where in SA they determine the market for some or other reason. The correct comparison in our market is Cell C which manages to sell at R10/GB. Neither shows that spectrum has any bearing on the price but rather greed and charging what the market would allow.

wizardofid said:
Problem Jannie argued that you got better value for money in recent years which is as good as price reductions if you look at a much early post of mine it links to posts from mybb that compares prices to other networks from 2015 and 2017 mtn reduced prices vodacom did bugger all in that time while mtn reductions went inline with what vodacom was charging. But the also haven't had any reductions in recent times.
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I understand what it is that Jannie tried to argue. Vodacom's average income per MB has decreased slightly over the years but what he fails to recognise is that data revenue has also been increasing. What has in actual fact happened is people have been buying larger bundles out of necessity and so make use of a better wholesale rate. I've pointed out since 2010 when Cell C introduced their 60GB packages that Vodacom's bundle prices have become stagnant and have now not changed at all except in some cases got even more expensive.

It would do Jannie well not to peddle marketing bullsh#t on a forum that can easily refute it with basic facts. Vodacom hasn't been reducing bundle prices at all while people are spending more.

f2wohf said:
Not exactly the same.

Half or more of the petrol price goes to the government, the other half follows the exchange rate and petrol price.

They do not make more profit here than elsewhere, unlike the cellphone operators and particularly Vodacom who do.

The petrol price in Europe is significantly higher than here for example.

It is cheaper in the US because they petrol and much less taxes embedded in the price.
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Well the problem is they've been increasing taxes on fuel year on year even when the actual fuel price doesn't go up. Even when oil costs $25 a barrel it doesn't have much of an effect as the taxes simply swallow it up and it's been just as high in the past while petrol was cheaper. Our taxes are simply out of line with the norm and the actual price.

Also speaking of taxes why are farmers paying tax on fuel not meant to use on the road?

Emjay said:
You understand that those markets are completely different, right? Different regulatory frameworks, different geographics, demographics, etc. You are not comparing apples with apples.
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You people keep saying that but never provide proof of how SA is so "unique". I actually provided the stats previously to show that SA is in a much better position to provide broadband for cheaper. Either a lot of people stay in a dense area or nobody stays there. Our stand sizes are also smaller on average.

Emjay said:
Yet, all other service providers charge around the same? Why don't you then take your money elsewhere? Vodacom, and all the other providers, operate in a free'ish market. So do you. Don't like it? Use an alternative. Competition in the market will determine a fair price.
Click to expand...
Funny how Cell C is 10 times cheaper but competition doesn't seem to have the desired effect. Not when the 2 largest players has had market dominance for 10 years and even after that didn't have to really compete and keep on matching each others prices. What we really need is 8 or so smaller networks competing with each other, and no, that is not too much if you look at other countries but rather a minimum for good competition.

Emjay said:
Nope. But I have worked on some commercial models around broadband, roll-out of networks, and setting up operations. I agree Vodacom should try and work with the public, and implement requirements set down by ICASA according to the spirit of those regulations. But, they are a for profit business. Government should be setting policy to lower costs, maybe even incentivize it and crack down on non-compliant service providers. ICASA is useless, and the biggest cause of higher data costs. But, as usual, people lash out at the wrong party.
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People are lashing at both. If Vodacom does get the spectrum BS they keep peddling do you really think they'd reduce prices? From what you say they'd still be a corporate entity trying to maximise profit. They'd probably use it for corporate customers and not consumers. As for Icasa they are toothless. They almost never take a hard stance and the instances where they actually do and clarify things you have operators running to the courts. So it's both the regulatory framework and the operators managing to circumvent it.
 
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