Vodacom explains 3G/HSDPA problems

Just wondering. I have a Dell D630 with a built-in 3G Card. Do I need to upgrade? Which one do I choose?

From: http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/latit_d630?c=us&l=en&s=biz&cs=555

Dell Wireless 5520 Mobile Broadband (Tri-band HSDPA 3.6) Mini-Card with service from AT&T (US) and Vodafone (select countries in Europe) Dell Wireless 5720 Mobile Broadband (EVDO Rev A) Mini-Card with service from Verizon Wireless (US), Sprint (US) and Telus (Canada)
 
Classfull and Cluefull

Just Installed a used "like-new" E220

Let it do the default install using "Mobile-Partner"

Changed the APN from "Dynamic" to "Static" and entered the magic word "Internet"

Left IP number and DNS "Dynamic"

Voila -- first click and 3.6 on the dial and NO VMC of any description -- unless you count "Mobile-Partner"

( and only R7.21 in the account )


the ECSTATIC one
 
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DELL 3G

Just wondering. I have a Dell D630 with a built-in 3G Card.
Dell Wireless 5520 Mobile Broadband (Tri-band HSDPA 3.6) Mini-Card

DANGEROUS Dangerous

You need to immediately uninstall and remove this card from your machine.

Before you learn how to activate the GPS and DELL and the CyberCops start tracking you.

You then need to send it directly to me so that I can safely put it away under lock and key. ( Faraday Cage )

I suggest you PM me immediately for posting instructions.


MW
 
DANGEROUS Dangerous

You need to immediately uninstall and remove this card from your machine.

Before you learn how to activate the GPS and DELL and the CyberCops start tracking you.

You then need to send it directly to me so that I can safely put it away under lock and key. ( Faraday Cage )

Right. You did realise that the police in SA can already use GSM triangulation to pick up your phone, right? And phones are a lot more portable than laptops.

Tohir: Don't listen to a word MW says. If the "CyberCops" really could track you back through a proxied Vodacom connection, they're probably breaking a law.
 
Just to draw a few distinctions here - I can imagine it gets confusing for newcomers to the technology, and Vodacom's conflicting messages do nothing to help.

VMC (and VMCLite) is not actually capable of connecting you to the internet. When you install either, it installs the device drivers that let Windows talk to your modem - at that point, there's nothing stopping you from setting your dongle up like a regular dialup modem.

All that VMC does is piggyback on that dialup link, chewing a massive amount of system resources and even crashing occasionally. There are only two direct benefits to using VMC/Lite:

1. Bandwidth usage monitor. However, I would suggest getting Bandwidth Monitor instead - it's a freeware app that's far more accurate and detailed.

2. Lets you send and recieve SMSes from your 3G modem. If you don't absolutely need this functionality, don't install VMC.

There's a further distinction between VMC and VMC Lite. VMC comes on a disc, whereas (on the e220 at least), VMC Lite is embedded in the modem. If you plug in the modem, let it do it's thing, and then install VMC from the disk (like the Vodacom salesperson will tell you to), you're activating two copies of the same software, and it leads to conflicts.

Just plugging in the modem is enough to install the modem drivers to your PC, and then you can load VMC Lite straight off the modem, without touching the CD.

For Linux users - your modem will be recognised as a dialup device. Run sudo wvdialconf and it should be configured automatically. You can set up it up manually via KPPP/gnome-ppp too - just use /dev/ttyS0 or /dev/ttyS1 as the device (use sudo dmesg | grep tty to confirm which).

As for Vodacom, they're only really releasing these new updates to save face. The real issues lie with their infrastructure.
 
Just to draw a few distinctions here - I can imagine it gets confusing for newcomers to the technology, and Vodacom's conflicting messages do nothing to help.
Won't you please point me to these 'conflicting' messages and I'll resolve them.

As for Vodacom, they're only really releasing these new updates to save face. The real issues lie with their infrastructure.
Won't you explain more?

What new updates?

v3 of VMC-lite has been around for a long time. Please explain why Vodacom released this software to save face? All software developers release new code periodically to add new features and fix bugs. That's how it works.

Explain more on the 'real issue' that lies with the infrastructure? I'm keen to hear your theory on how this problem was infrastructure related?
 
Won't you please point me to these 'conflicting' messages and I'll resolve them.

ok, i'll jump in here. how many different things can a 619 error mean?

I don't get it. tell me either:

"Your modem is busted up, but a new one"
"No tower found, it must be busted"
"No drivers found, go to the Vodacom site"
"USB power not sufficient, use the double-USB cable"
"Signal not good enough, I refuse to connect - wave your modem around."

stuff like that....
 
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ok, i'll jump in here. how many different things can a 619 error mean?

I don't get it. tell me either:

"Your modem is busted up, but a new one"
"No tower found, it must be busted"
"No drivers found, go to the Vodacom site"
"USB power not sufficient, use the double-USB cable"
"Signal not good enough, I refuse to connect - wave your modem around."

stuff like that....

619 only means you can't connect. ANY reason stopping you from connecting is reported as 619. From you not having enough money, to problems with your modem or PC to network problems to a nuclear strike.

BTW, all you examples are quite legit depending on the specific case. So I'm not sure how they can be deemed conflicting? Unless you believe all problems ALWAYS have the same cause? :confused:

But Wogan was talking (I assume) about something else. Thus my question to him.
 
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No, they are conflicting! as you said:

619 only means you can't connect. ANY reason stopping you from connecting is reported as 619. From you not having enough money, to problems with your modem or PC to network problems to a nuclear strike.

All different problems give the same bladdy error and don't have their ownm, unique message, thus, they are conflicting!

eg:
2 PC's using the SAME IP on a network - conflicting IP's
3 PC Devices all using the same IRQ - conflicting IRQ's
39 Different errors, all displaying the same Message - Conflicting Messages.

If I don't have money, tell me "Your Data Bundle is depleted, please giv more moneyz" not "RAS 619"
 
619 only means you can't connect. ANY reason stopping you from connecting is reported as 619.

ok, let me ask you this:

Your working on a document in MS Word, and you click on "Print"....BAM!
"582 RAP error - cannot print"

it could mean anything from a corrupt font up to the printer's front-left screw is loose. where are you gonna start?

this, my friend, is not how you develop software.
 
If I don't have money, tell me "Your Data Bundle is depleted, please giv more moneyz" not "RAS 619"

You do realise that those RAS errors 619, 678, etc. Are MICROSOFT generated errors? And not Vodacom or Vodafone generated errors.

It is your Microsoft software telling you there is a problem connecting via your dial-up networking. Vodacom has no say in how tell the error message - you have depleted your bundle, or the tower is broken, or whatever.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/163111

http://www.modemsite.com/56k/dunserror.asp

http://www.demon.net/helpdesk/technicallibrary/misc/general/dunraserror.html

I think you need to ask Microsoft to be more specific with their error codes.
 
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I disagree - even if there are M$ Protocols in place, the software should still be able to tell the difference between a poor signal and a broken tower, or missing drivers, etc

If their software can't do it, what's the use of having it then, because then it's useless.
 
TIC

Right. You did realise that the police in SA can already use GSM triangulation to pick up your phone, right? And phones are a lot more portable than laptops.

Sure Sure -- what's new

Tohir: Don't listen to a word MW says. If the "CyberCops" really could track you back through a proxied Vodacom connection, they're probably breaking a law.

Have you not understood yet -- cops breaking the law is an oxymoron.

The post was very much tongue in cheek. ( except for the FARADAY cage )

I have been trying for yonks now to get someone to sell me one of these cards at a decent realistic price ( they seem to be all over the place) --
but I just cannot find anyone to provide me with one. I have the CASH in my pocket. :(


MW
 
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It is your Microsoft software telling you there is a problem connecting via your dial-up networking. Vodacom has no say in how tell the error message - you have depleted your bundle, or the tower is broken, or whatever.


mtn probably also uses 619 as 'no airtime','no network'.;)
 
I disagree - even if there are M$ Protocols in place, the software should still be able to tell the difference between a poor signal and a broken tower, or missing drivers, etc

If their software can't do it, what's the use of having it then, because then it's useless.

Any software can only rely on the information provided by underlying layers. Might be a good idea to study how software layers work.

If you believe MS is useless, maybe take it up with them. Vodacom can't really write you a new OS, now can it?
 
So your customers can fix their problem of having no internet by connecting to the internet and downloading drivers?

Does anyone have a phone number list of the forumites who can't connect? i`ll sms them and tell them the good news.

Another problem is the modem installing all over again every time i plug it into a different usb slot.. will it downgrade vmc? Unfortunately i need vmc because i need to tell it to use 3g every time before i connect
 
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Any software can only rely on the information provided by underlying layers. Might be a good idea to study how software layers work.

If you believe MS is useless, maybe take it up with them. Vodacom can't really write you a new OS, now can it?

You ask "what problems? what conflicting messages??". I point 'em out.... Now excuses are made that Microsoft is to blame. whats next?

No need to code a NEW OS v3g, and also no need to COMPLETELY rely on the OS.
Code what is needed, that is all.

If you think you need to code a whole new OS to get a USB Modem to function, then I have no words to say to that :p

But you are right, Vodacom would never be able to code an OS or anything with a scope of that magnitude, as they couldn't even code a Stable Connect/disconnect Frontend :D it's slow. it's ugly. it's unstable and it takes forever to load for such a basic frontend.
 
Won't you please point me to these 'conflicting' messages and I'll resolve them.

I see a coupla guys already handled that (thanks!).

It would also help if your sales reps would become acquainted with what they were selling - maybe have them use (and troubleshoot) a few e220s themselves.

Won't you explain more?

What new updates?

v3 of VMC-lite has been around for a long time. Please explain why Vodacom released this software to save face? All software developers release new code periodically to add new features and fix bugs. That's how it works.

Little patronising for a myBB rep, hmm? We obviously haven't met, so I'll disregard that comment.

VMC is a convenience interface, nothing more. I've used the same modem across three operating systems with no software installations beyond the drivers on the modem itself (and that was only on Windows) - so the problem can't really lie with the software, can it?

If you code something that breaks when you upgrade something else, then there's a flaw in your original design. I'm sure you must realise by now that the average PC user does not actively seek updates for software, and why should they need to, when it's a dialup modem?

Had you done the job right on the first version of VMC, chances are you wouldn't have had to upgrade past that, not for 10 years at least. Future-proof, as we developers call it.

Explain more on the 'real issue' that lies with the infrastructure? I'm keen to hear your theory on how this problem was infrastructure related?

This might not happen to you, but I've had instances where the signal just completely dies. Towers go offline without warning, they drop the 3G signal for no apparent reason, and there are times (used to be at least once every 36 hours) where international sites become inaccessible for hours at a time. I've even had the internet become completely unavailable despite the modem reporting it being connected - there is no possible way the problem here lay on my side.

Then there is the speed. Granted, we're talking wireless (and thus fluctuating), but the speed sometimes drops to sub-gprs levels, even though I'm clearly on a 3G line. I've also never achieved the maximum throughput Vodacom advertises. I'm lucky to get 1mbps for about 3 seconds a week - and I live within 3km of a 3G-enabled tower.

Then the latency. Don't get me started on the latency.

Then there are the times when it just fails to establish a connection. The modem works, the software's there, hell, it gets to the "Registering your computer on the network" part, but just craps out from there with arcane error codes and no explanations.

Your 155 helpdesk told me to reset. Guess how much that helped?

My 3G modem never moved from its spot, so I'd expect the quality of service to be constant at least 80% of the time, but every day was a hassle.

So yes, in summary, I'd say there's a fair amount of work that needs to happen with your infrastructure. Also, get your developers to code something that doesn't crash every hour (memory overflow, if I recall), and ship it embedded on the modem.
 
I see a coupla guys already handled that (thanks!).
Actually they did not. I'd like to hear your specific examples of 'conflicting messages'.

It would also help if your sales reps would become acquainted with what they were selling - maybe have them use (and troubleshoot) a few e220s themselves.
Agree 100%. Training is always an issue.

Little patronising for a myBB rep, hmm? We obviously haven't met, so I'll disregard that comment.
So you make a statement without substantiating it and when I ask you to do so, I'm being patronising? Nope, rather I need to understand why you make such statements (like you did in this thread), so I can help you understand whatever it is you don't.

On this point, I've seen this often here on myBB. Forumites are so used to be able to come here and post whatever they like and then they're taken aback when actually asked to substantiate it. For example here you made a few distinct statements without actually providing any facts to back them up. And when asked to provide the underlying facts, your best response is that the question is patronising?

VMC is a convenience interface, nothing more. I've used the same modem across three operating systems with no software installations beyond the drivers on the modem itself (and that was only on Windows) - so the problem can't really lie with the software, can it?
VMC is an interface. Just like any other dash. What problem with the software?

If you code something that breaks when you upgrade something else, then there's a flaw in your original design. I'm sure you must realise by now that the average PC user does not actively seek updates for software, and why should they need to, when it's a dialup modem?

Had you done the job right on the first version of VMC, chances are you wouldn't have had to upgrade past that, not for 10 years at least. Future-proof, as we developers call it.
I've long realised that only people on this forum write perfect software that have all the features ever needed in version 1.0, support all upcoming hardware, even that not designed yet, and have zero bugs. :rolleyes:

The rest of the world unfortunately write software that sometimes have bugs and needs upgrades to support new features. All you perfect *developers* should really go and sort out Microsoft, Linux, IBM, Sun, Oracle, Cisco and all the other big boys who keep on releasing software that's not perfect. I'm sure they'll pay handsomely for someone who can "future-proof" their software for 10 years. :rolleyes:

This might not happen to you, but I've had instances where the signal just completely dies. Towers go offline without warning, they drop the 3G signal for no apparent reason, and there are times (used to be at least once every 36 hours) where international sites become inaccessible for hours at a time. I've even had the internet become completely unavailable despite the modem reporting it being connected - there is no possible way the problem here lay on my side.
I'd really suggest you read up a bit about how cellular communications work. Specifically UMTS. It's a complex environment and prone to problems. It's just the nature of the beast.

Won't you pass me some reports where showing where international sites become inaccessible for hours, every 36 hours. I'd like to pass them to the engineering guys as this does not at all relate to the management reports I get every day.

Then there is the speed. Granted, we're talking wireless (and thus fluctuating), but the speed sometimes drops to sub-gprs levels, even though I'm clearly on a 3G line. I've also never achieved the maximum throughput Vodacom advertises. I'm lucky to get 1mbps for about 3 seconds a week - and I live within 3km of a 3G-enabled tower.

Then the latency. Don't get me started on the latency.
See above on learning about UMTS. Will really help you. For example; 3Km is way outside the spec. and probably explains why you see cell-breathing.

Won't you point me to the throughput Vodacom advertises? I've not seen these ads. Where did you see them, on TV? In the press?

Then there are the times when it just fails to establish a connection. The modem works, the software's there, hell, it gets to the "Registering your computer on the network" part, but just craps out from there with arcane error codes and no explanations.
As you said yourself, the OS only sees the 3G device as a modem. So those 'arcane error codes without explanations' are coming from your OS. You should take it up with the OS authors. ;)

Your 155 helpdesk told me to reset. Guess how much that helped?

My 3G modem never moved from its spot, so I'd expect the quality of service to be constant at least 80% of the time, but every day was a hassle.

So yes, in summary, I'd say there's a fair amount of work that needs to happen with your infrastructure. Also, get your developers to code something that doesn't crash every hour (memory overflow, if I recall), and ship it embedded on the modem.
Read a bit on cell technology, might explain a few things. Or ask, if you're not sure.

So, in summary, please learn a bit about cellular comms and don't be shy to ask. Myself (and many others here) are willing to help as much as we can for you to understand the technology. And the fact that unlike your coding, it's just not perfect.

In other words, if you're not sure, please ask. But please don't make statements you don't have any underlying facts to back it up. And if you do have facts to back it up, please share it with us. We can then use it to make the network better for every one.

but please don't post unsubstantiated views or opinions as facts. It's an honest request, BTW. Not trying to be 'patronising'.

BTW, I was always under the impression the dash is embedded in the modem?
 
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i must admit that Vodacom would be better off if they would first cover the whole of S.A wth 3g towers (stable towers) before increasing Q0s.those who have good coverage will keep quiet(like myself),all is good(4.4Mbps downlink,1.2Mbps uplink AVERAGING 3-4 bars signal) but those with bad signal(several customers,friends,relatives) will complain about 619,631,634,678,718.

There may be several issues related to the above issue but fact is it all boils down to signal issues/quality.I wouldnt advice people to go to any other network because it is all the same and even worse(Neotel,MTN,Telkom).Atleast Vodacom can handle congestion (unlike embarrassing Neotel with their cheap prices/poor quailty).id rather pay more for quality than less for nothing.FACT!
 
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