VoIP issues

[diabolus]

MTN's VOIP Policy ?

Someone posted this in the MTN thread and it got me somewhat interested to know what Vodacom's plans are. I can't imagine MTN doing that and Vodacom not, either MTN is going to loose alot of their [power user] customers or Vodacom will do something similar. Or is there such a clause somewhere in Vodacom's Terms and Condition too [oops?] ....

"In terms of the current regulatory regime in South Africa, please note that these tariffs and the MTN GPRS, GPRS+ and EDGE technologies may not be used to transfer or generate Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) traffic. Should it be found that VoIP traffic was carried over the MTN network using these tariffs or technologies, MTN reserves the right to cancel the agreement that you have with MTN, with immediate effect. You will also be charged retrospectively at R25.00 per Megabyte (VAT included) for any VoIP traffic transferred by such means."

PS Here's the link to above "Term and Condition"
http://www.mtn.co.za/Default.aspx?pid=232081

 

[Tahir Ally]

With Vodacom 3G you can do VOIP

 

[MaD]

If they deny the use of VoIP then customers will leave.. Business101

 

[vodacom3g]

Vodacom's original lodging with ICASA states that VoIP could be charged at R10/Mb.

At the time of the drastic drop in pricing (December last year) there was great uncertainty around what would happen with VoIP, especially from a regulatory point of view.

It was therefore decided to keep VoIP traffic at the original levels of R10/Mb and to watch the situation. This is still the status quo.

Please note that you are NOT being charged for VoIP on your current setup. All data is treater equal, billed the same, no port shaping, etc.

Before any change in policy is decided on and implemented (if ever), it will be posted here in good time.

 

[Johand]

Vodacom does not restrict VoIP, although they do charge more for it, @ R10/MB. Neither operator would like to see VoIP and it is clear why. Maybe legistation has to be passed to prevent operators from doing that, but that will most likely lead to an increase in data prices.

 

[MaD]

If someone wants to rip the arse out of a good technology then they should be disallowed from using it.. like Telkom using ADSL, they give the technology a bad name. If the cell operators would actually be facetious enough to bill VoIP at R10 then they shouldn't offer it in the first place as that price is a slap in the face to the inventors of the technology.

 

[CrazyMadMan]

There is no way they can tell between voice data and any other data so VOIP away

 

[Gatecrasher]

I guess the most obvious is to determine per user...

1) frequency of use.
2) average number of contacts.
3) location of contacts.

It would also be interesting to determine the actual savings due to VOIP and/or the increased amount of telephony due to VOIP, ultimately to determine what kind of financial effect VOIP might have on traditional telephony.

Are people replacing calls they previously made, or making calls they would not previously have made?

 

[Debbie]

I guess the most obvious is to determine per user...

1) frequency of use.
2) average number of contacts.
3) location of contacts.

Are people replacing calls they previously made, or making calls they would not previously have made?

1) Every weekend
2) I think I got about 7 contacts
3) 3 in SA, 3 or 4 in UK

I use Skype, only had it for about 4 weeks or so.

I make calls that I otherwise would not normally make, for the most part.

The biggest problem with free VOIP is that so many ppl don't use it, so contacts (at least for me) are limited.

 

[Daveogg]

1) Every day
2) 1 regularly another occasionally
3) New Zealand
I use skype and freshtel. Freshtel seems to have slightly better voice quality but since i got the dualphone have reverted back too skype.

IC prehaps include a link to testyourvoip.com and ask peeps to test to one location (?london) and then we can compare adsl / iburst / 3g / mywi etc.

 

[Neo]

What do you say, what would you like to know about the VoIP usage of your fellow forumites...?

- How much local VoIP, in minutes do you use (say per week)
- How much international VoIP, in minutes do you use (say per week)
- What service do you use, Skype, etc.
- How important is voice quality
- How important is cost
- How many more calls do you make because you use VoIP
- If you can't use voIP, what other system do you use, Telkom, mobile, etc?
- Would you use video calling, if available

 

[GuRu]

Add to list

1. I dont use Skype but am looking at getting it
2. Would you like a directory setup?

 

[bwana]

1. I dont use Skype but am looking at getting it
2. Would you like a directory setup?

I'd have to say no to number 2 - Skype already offers a searchable directory for those who wish to be included.

As an alternative - Should telkom allow us to publish skype or other voip details in the phonebook?

 

[bosun]

VoIP in SA

I just recently attended the VoIP Africa Strategy conference in Cape Town. Quite interesting to hear the experiences of operators in Europe and other parts of Africa.
I think real commercial VoIP (i.e. terminating on other networks be they PSTN or Mobile) within SA at substantially lower rates is still a little way off.
I say this because, under the recently amended regulations (and this is just my understanding) the only people who can self provision cabling are the PSTN operators (i.e. Telkom and the SNO) and the Cellular Operators. This means that the combination of Interconnect fees and carrier fees will result in prices, for local and national calls at least, that are not hugely lower than you can currently "enjoy" over the Telkom network.
Basically it all boils down to a numbers game. For a VoIP provider to be able to provide really cheap calls he will need either a sufficient volume of traffic so the small margins make it worth while, or enough custmoers must be prepared to put up with the noticeably lower voice quality when compared to regular Telkom lines.
The only people who will really score is those large corporates with many geographically distant branches, as it is now legal for them to carry voice traffic over their WAN at basically zero additional cost. And of course, we know that no one was doing this before Feb 1st.....
Also, dont confuse the Skype offering with what VoIP really is. Skype if offering free calls within a closed community, and significantly cheaper calls (if you disregard data costs) to international destinations, however calls originating and terminating within SA are as expensive, if not more expensive, than just picking up your Telkom phone and direct dialling. And, given the relatively low PC penetration rates within the South African population, this is unlikely, at this stage, to pose a significant threat to Telkom's major revenue streams which are largely based on Intra National calls.
Don't forget that we that frequent this forum are hardly representative of the population at large. Just like SAB Miller aren't that scared that we all drink Windhoek
I do believe though, that the Corporate inter branch calling across the WAN may be a significant enough market that Telkom (and others) may be forced to make offerings to that market segment, cannibalising some revenue in order to at least not lose everything. In other words - Eat your own children, before some one else does.

 

[cjm]

There still seems to be some confusion wrt billing for VOIP on V3G. While investigating which broadband connection to go for, a lady at Vodashop hatfield assured my brother this morning that VOIP will be billed for seperately at normal cellphone tariffs.

 

[vodacom3g]

To clarify:

1) The lodging with ICASA states that Vodacom can charge R10/Mb for VoIP.
2) Vodacom is not billing at this rate (at the moment). All data is treated as equal.
3) If VoIP billing had to kick in, I'll announce it here in good time.

So the Vodashops are giving you the official statement.

 

[grubsner]

I'm starting to get the same disconnects as VMS for the past two days on different BS on GPRS. GPRS connection is fast but after a short period, it's always within a data download; then suddenly no data download, but I keep my IP address. I'm using internetvpn APN. I have phoned 155 and the guys will look into it. At least I can get the card to re-initialize after the dash crash, without rebooting my notebook.

Will post 155 feedback.

 

[fingers121]

I'm starting to get the same disconnects as VMS for the past two days on different BS on GPRS. GPRS connection is fast but after a short period, it's always within a data download; then suddenly no data download, but I keep my IP address. I'm using internetvpn APN. I have phoned 155 and the guys will look into it. At least I can get the card to re-initialize after the dash crash, without rebooting my notebook.

Will post 155 feedback.

I have been having these disconnects for sometime now, but it seems to be area, and signal dependant...

In Jo'burg, it happens at home where the signal is currently poor, but at work in Midrand, doesn't happen at all.

Bloem also seems fine, but signal strength is fine, but after 2 hours the card crashes, that happens in the Stellenbosch area too.

In Cape Town, around the Century city area it works fine, no disconnects or crashes, but go down the road to Milnerton, signal is very poor, and the crashing, and disconnects happen there, also in the Constantia/Claremont area, 3G signal very bad, the card log's on to 3G, but no data, but switch over to GPRS, and all works fine. The 2G coverage around the Kenilworth area though is very poor too - maybe the beloved mountain has something to do with that or it's just very congested like the roads in that part of town?

Durban seems fine, just only used it in the airport so far, and had no problems there...

 

[VMS]

"
1) The lodging with ICASA states that Vodacom can charge R10/Mb for VoIP.
2) Vodacom is not billing at this rate (at the moment). All data is treated as equal.
3) If VoIP billing had to kick in, I'll announce it here in good time.
"

Well, well.... Yesterday I was at a school meeting. LOTS OF PEOPLE!!!! All rich. Felt rather low class with my small BMW325i sportspack.

Someone told them I am the techy in the area. They heard that I had 3G on my laptop. Weird, none of them had it.

So they want to see a demo. Telkom is screwing around. Even the so-called broadband line for the estate is not up and running yet. These guys all have laptops and stay in R1.5 + mil houses.

If Vodacom cannot commit to charging or not charging for VoIP I am going to tell all these wonderful people to rather wait for ADSL and not waste their money on 3G. The problem is, and this is how it looks like to me, that Vodacom is going to wait until a lot of people sign up for a 2 year contract to up the price.

Guess what guys???? If they put filters on for sites like Skype etc... they can also do that for your porn lovers. Next itemised bill your wife opens shows your 'accidental' 1 hour visit to www.kiddyporngoesbeastiality.com.

I am starting my own VoIP service soon. I will run my service from a Linux machine served off a German server. This is only for a few friends and will cost me R300/month hosting. In my group we have about 10 IP addresses to choose from (now). Each day I will change the host IP and the ports used. Details will be emailed to the group of friends every 12hours. And then 'The way' will become known to many others. Voice will be encapsulated in HTML port 80. Skype like IPs will change dynamically and Vodacom will have to double their tariffs to recover lost R10/mb and all the staff and equipment costs policing their network. People will not renew their 3G contracts and new customers will be cautious to sign up (especially after my potential speech next week- WAIT I am going to see about 100 families tomorrow at a function- good time to tell them to rather support Sentech !!)


Enough about the great fun that I am going to have....

VODACOM PLEASE READ THIS. ALL YOU BASTARDS AT TOP LEVEL MANAGEMENT!!!!!!!!

You know what an 'open party' is ??? An open party is when you make your house available to everybody for a party. Everybody is welcome. You can bring anything to eat and drink. Yes, please don't break the windows and furniture, but generally anything goes. If you have an exclusive tea party you can call the police if people gate crash. Where am I going with this?

The GSM network is a private tea party. You have to be someone to qualify and it costs money. Sometimes you have to pay someone to get invited and while there you have to behave yourself or get kicked out. The internet is an open party. Sure, stop the people from selling drugs (kiddy porn etc...) and creating chaos, but it is an open party.

Vodacom, you have invited people to an open party. You cannot halfway through the party start charging the people full bar prices for their own drinks, per tot nogal. People use free software, suffer the quality problems of intenet, i.e. bring and wash their own glasses and suffer their own hangovers.

Many of us 3G users are suffering with the bad quality of service we are getting. Imagine all of those and many others drowning out those wonderful 3G adds on TV and explaining to the masses how crap 3G is.

Vodacom, you are hosting an open party. If you want to change it to a tea party please cancel all contracts and let those who want to reapply for the more expensive service.

Man, am I going to have fun with my new friends tomorrow, doctors, bank managers, ex-rugby Springbok, school headmaster, air traffic controller etc... "Hey VMS, what internet connection should we get? .... Well guys, let me tell you....."

Vodacom (not V3G - he is a nice guy), don't screw with people you don't understand or know anything about. Make up your minds so that I and others can decide if we need to get connected somewhere else.

a very grumpy.

VMS

 

[Neo]

You must have had a very bad day

Instead of trying to justify your posting with the status of your newfound friends, their cars and homes, let's rather see what we can do about this situation.

Both MTN (@ R25/MB) and Vodacom (@ R10/MB) have opted to reserve the right to bill for VoIP. This is their right. Just as it is yours not to use their services. It's called a free market.

Any company has the right to protect it's main source of income. I don't know what you do for a living, but can't see you actively trying to help create your own competition.

We should rather educate the mobile providers in showing them they should not be afraid of VoIP but rather should embrace it.

I believe most people will use VoIP for international calls, not local. If so, allowing VoIP over the 3G network will increase revenue as you would not have used your mobile to make an international call. You'd either use a landline or not make the call at all.

So, if the above is true, Vodacom and MTN will pick up revenue normally destined for Telkom.

ic posted on the forum asking for this kind of info.

http://www.mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=19292

Let's get the feedback and take it to the mobile operators.

Ranting and raving and calling people bastards is not going to get us anywhere.