Voting?

[RVQ]

I'm more aligned to socialist/communist policies - the DA is very pro-business, giving higher priority to the well being of corporations and business than of individuals. They are anti trade unions, pro labour brokers (even wanting to remove restrictions on labour brokers), etc, etc

And what's the solution to the problem you present?

So in your belief having the ANC in power is a greater reward than any other party?

 

[KillerX]

I'm more aligned to socialist/communist policies - the DA is very pro-business, giving higher priority to the well being of corporations and business than of individuals. They are anti trade unions, pro labour brokers (even wanting to remove restrictions on labour brokers), etc, etc

Pure socialism or communism will simply not work in South Africa. That would be much worse than the current ANC government. If the mighty soviet empire couldn't pull it off, we certainly don't have a snowballs chance in hell.

Also, take a good look at the banyana states in the south of Europe and their utopian socialist ideals. No one contributes or wants to work (as in SA), and expects the government to keep supporting them no matter what. Today, most of the countries on the southern periphery are on the brink of collapse.

Capitalism has spawned the greatest middle class the world has ever seen, and continues to thrive (US of A). A capitalist economy is what uplifted hundreds of millions of Chinese out of abject poverty and has made them into the 2nd largest economy in just 2 decades.

Being pro business and anti union is the killer app. The recipe works, we just need to implement it.

And yes, I Vote DA.

 

[Voicy]

I'm more aligned to socialist/communist policies - the DA is very pro-business, giving higher priority to the well being of corporations and business than of individuals. They are anti trade unions, pro labour brokers (even wanting to remove restrictions on labour brokers), etc, etc

I'm busy reading a book / autobiography by an old cold war spy, Gerard Ludi, called "The communistisation of the ANC" - you should really consider giving it a read. It's a very rude awakening to the reality of the "struggle".

 

[Sherbang]

I'm busy reading a book / autobiography by an old cold war spy, Gerard Ludi, called "The communistisation of the ANC" - you should really consider giving it a read. It's a very rude awakening to the reality of the "struggle".

Thanks, I just ordered a copy, looks really interesting

 

[Sherbang]

Pure socialism or communism will simply not work in South Africa. That would be much worse than the current ANC government. If the mighty soviet empire couldn't pull it off, we certainly don't have a snowballs chance in hell.

Also, take a good look at the banyana states in the south of Europe and their utopian socialist ideals. No one contributes or wants to work (as in SA), and expects the government to keep supporting them no matter what. Today, most of the countries on the southern periphery are on the brink of collapse.

Capitalism has spawned the greatest middle class the world has ever seen, and continues to thrive (US of A). A capitalist economy is what uplifted hundreds of millions of Chinese out of abject poverty and has made them into the 2nd largest economy in just 2 decades.

Being pro business and anti union is the killer app. The recipe works, we just need to implement it.

And yes, I Vote DA.

I agree to an extent (not sure about china) - I'm not anti capitalist per se, but I think these systems are appropriate to a time and place - capitalism was appropriate in a time of virtually unlimited resources and unlimited potential for growth - among other differences between then and now, this is no longer the case and capitalism is no longer appropriate, imo...

 

[Kosmik]

Everyone has the right to vote who they chose but my personal opinion on a person who abstains is that they are the same as a person standing in a burning house and doing nothing.

With the same end result.

 

[Nicodeamus]

to be really honest, the odds of 1 person changing the election is absolutely zero. I like standing in queues and talking nonsense though and some of the ward councillors are my friends so I'll vote for that reason!

 

[LazyLion]

to be really honest, the odds of 1 person changing the election is absolutely zero. I like standing in queues and talking nonsense though and some of the ward councillors are my friends so I'll vote for that reason!

Actually the odds are far from zero for those that know their history.
It's never just one person though... it's thousands of individuals who all collectively together could make a MASSIVE difference.
And when it comes to one person's vote making a difference, you need to read this story....

According to the Vermont Secretary of State Web site, in 1844, Freeman Clark, a farmer, was seriously ill and needed his son carry him to the polls to vote for Indiana Sen.-candidate, David Kelso. The farmer died soon after and Kelso was elected by one vote. Later that year, the Indiana Senate elected Edward Hann.igan for U.S. Senate by one vote, which was cast by Kelso.

Nearly one year later, another one-vote margin made Texas the 28th state. The vote was cast by U.S. Sen. Hann.igan, who was elected by the one vote of Ind. Sen. Kelso, who in turn was elected by Clark's one vote.

http://www.sec.state.vt.us/TownMeeting/one_vote.html
http://www.empowermentzone.com/one_vote.txt
http://onevoteoddities.blogspot.com/2008/09/indiana-state-legislature.html

 

[ponder]

For reasons you already mentioned, the ANC does not have to put that much effort into their campaigns beyond a t-shirts, concerts and a few rallies IMO

I'm gonna be very rude here and say that is what is commonly known as 'K' psychology as everybody knows it. I'm not trying to offend anybody but that is simply what it is known as and the ANC uses it big time to their advantage. Why do people sell themselves for a packet of nicknacks or a R1 t-shirt, it's so frustrating.

 

[Freaksta]

to be really honest, the odds of 1 person changing the election is absolutely zero. I like standing in queues and talking nonsense though and some of the ward councillors are my friends so I'll vote for that reason!

1 person? Hahhahahaha, I know of stacks of people who don't vote, I believe if you dont vote you have no right to complain because you did not even try vote for a party who you believe in.

I was chatting to a coloured friend of mine the other day, he said he didn't vote last time but he really wants to this time but feels stuck in the middle!

 

[ponder]

I'm more aligned to socialist/communist policies - the DA is very pro-business, giving higher priority to the well being of corporations and business than of individuals. They are anti trade unions, pro labour brokers (even wanting to remove restrictions on labour brokers), etc, etc

May I ask why you say this? Have you ever looked at the bastions of communism/socialism and ever wondered why they all crumbled and are now embracing capitalism? Where those people ever better off under communism than their counterparts under capitalism where you can basically decide your own destiny in life?

 

[Grimspoon]

A lot of blacks, coloureds and indians agree that whites should come back into power. And no that doesn't mean apartheid would return, there is no way we going back down that road. It would mean brining back morals, accountability, pride. The black government has enriched its own pockets leaving the poor even poorer. The whites of this generation only want to help make this a better country. They want to work with the blacks to make things right, but in fact their own black brothers are milking the system, filling their own coffers and leaving the poor out try dry. I really wish the current government would sort its **** out, root out corruption and start adding value to this country rather than sapping it of everything it has left. Sadly most of the ministers, poloticians and the president himself are a bunch of money hungry thieving piles of horse excrement.

The biggest challenge is to get the average black man to agree and trust the whites again. And rightly so, why should they, after all they did. But without a radical change, this country is going like the rest of Africa, a big ball of crap.

 

[Nicodeamus]

1 person? Hahhahahaha, I know of stacks of people who don't vote, I believe if you dont vote you have no right to complain because you did not even try vote for a party who you believe in.

I was chatting to a coloured friend of mine the other day, he said he didn't vote last time but he really wants to this time but feels stuck in the middle!

what if there isn't any party you believe in? Then you did vote, with your absinthe. The DA's increase in votes in Pretoria in the previous municipal election was as a result of ANC members not voting.

 

[LazyLion]

A lot of blacks, coloureds and indians agree that whites should come back into power. And no that doesn't mean apartheid would return, there is no way we going back down that road. It would mean brining back morals, accountability, pride. The black government has enriched its own pockets leaving the poor even poorer. The whites of this generation only want to help make this a better country. They want to work with the blacks to make things right, but in fact their own black brothers are milking the system, filling their own coffers and leaving the poor out try dry. I really wish the current government would sort its **** out, root out corruption and start adding value to this country rather than sapping it of everything it has left. Sadly most of the ministers, poloticians and the president himself are a bunch of money hungry thieving piles of horse excrement.

The biggest challenge is to get the average black man to agree and trust the whites again. And rightly so, why should they, after all they did. But without a radical change, this country is going like the rest of Africa, a big ball of crap.

I understand what you are trying to say, but I would still not state it in terms of racial groups.
The fact is that there are many whites, Indians and Coloureds who actually support the ANC.
And there are many whites who are also corrupt, racist or inept.

It's not about which racial group can rule better. It's about voting in the least corrupt ones and those who will work hardest to make this country work.

 

[Nicodeamus]

Actually the odds are far from zero for those that know their history.
It's never just one person though... it's thousands of individuals who all collectively together could make a MASSIVE difference.
And when it comes to one person's vote making a difference, you need to read this story....

http://www.shaw.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123080370

http://www.sec.state.vt.us/TownMeeting/one_vote.html
http://www.empowermentzone.com/one_vote.txt
http://onevoteoddities.blogspot.com/2008/09/indiana-state-legislature.html

since 1844 how many elections have been determined for 1 vote? Especially in a country with over 20million voters. Anyone who has done a bit of elementary probability would know that the chances of your vote changing the election is as good as you winning the lotto.

 

[LazyLion]

since 1844 how many elections have been determined for 1 vote? Especially in a country with over 20million voters. Anyone who has done a bit of elementary probability would know that the chances of your vote changing the election is as good as you winning the lotto.

Newsflash... people DO win the lotto.
My wife got an illness that only affects one in ten million people.
And then she got it again three years later... and the chances of that were one in a hundred million.

There have been plenty of examples, did you even look through the links I gave, or are you just blustering on in your own ignorance?

 

[Grimspoon]

I understand what you are trying to say, but I would still not state it in terms of racial groups.
The fact is that there are many whites, Indians and Coloureds who actually support the ANC.
And there are many whites who are also corrupt, racist or inept.

It's not about which racial group can rule better. It's about voting in the least corrupt ones and those who will work hardest to make this country work.

Fair enough. The way I see it is that the government on the whole is out to fill its pockets and their friends and their friends friends, why? Because they can. They have been oppressed for all these years, now they are driving, so hell its like a kid in a candy shop.

And while it is wrong and it is destroying this country, you can to a point understand the mentality behind their thinking. But this is a country in the process of being ruined, the masses need to see what they are doing is wrong and is doing nothing to better their lives. They need to vote for the least corrupt party, and I am sorry to say but that would be a white party.

 

[ponder]

since 1844 how many elections have been determined for 1 vote? Especially in a country with over 20million voters. Anyone who has done a bit of elementary probability would know that the chances of your vote changing the election is as good as you winning the lotto.

Every vote counts. If 5 million people abstain then that could have been 5 million individual votes going to another party. If every single person just votes following their brain/logic/common sense then it would make a big difference. Take emotion out of the equation.

 

[LazyLion]

Every vote counts. If 5 million people abstain then that could have been 5 million individual votes going to another party. If every single person just votes following their brain/logi/common sense then it would make a big difference. Take emotion out of the equation.

It's difficult to reason with people who are so self focused.

 

[RVQ]

since 1844 how many elections have been determined for 1 vote? Especially in a country with over 20million voters. Anyone who has done a bit of elementary probability would know that the chances of your vote changing the election is as good as you winning the lotto.

There has been wards that was one by one vote...