War over iBurst tower erupts

[marine1]

I must respectfully ad my comments

Just for the record, I found an acquaintence of mine who lives in the UK, he has got a magnetron from a microwave oven on his benchtop, he uses to test his neon tubes, by holding it with his bare hand. Tells us he's done this for the last however many years without injury. So there, his hand hasn't fallen off, or burnt, or broken out in cancer. The magnetron acts as a diathermic device, heating the tissues. Diathermy is used in medicine, not so? A magnetron heats, that's all it does and it needs to emit over 400 watts of CW to achieve that.

X rays are also used in medicine but they can be extremely dangerous, causing cancer and even death after short term and long term exposure and have been shown to destroy cells. The same may be said for radiation in cancer treatment.

An iBurst basestation puts out 26 watts modulated in bursts. I seriously doubt that will raise the temperature of anything even by 0,01 degrees C. If put into a dummy load it will probably weakly heat it, compared to a military/civilian radar that will probably set most dummy loads on fire. Ham radios, especially some CB radios are MORE POWERFUL than this!!!!

I dont know why this is just an Iburst issue, this should be directed at any mast, be it military or civilian use, I wonder why Cancer is on such an increase? Maybe due to all this crap that is around us?

And now for the joke of it all... I lived next door to an MTN tower between 1994 and 2005, no change in health, no cancer, no skin rashes, or anything to myself, my pets or my cancer suffering mother. My mother got cancer from cigarettes, which in my book is a far greater health hazard than any military radar.

You assume it was from cigarettes. Mayve it was a combination of cellular damage and cigarettes. Dont just discount it.

What of all the planes that pump out microwaves into the air?
What of all the cellphone masts?
what of all the armed response radios in people's homes/businesses pumping out over 15 watts?
Everyone loves cellphones, yet nobody complains about them.

I agree, they should all be investigated, there are too many of these things pumping out god knows what and as I said, I dont think this is only an Iburst issue

 

[Sackboy]

I also look forward to such proof....

The disinformation abounds.... I am actually getting quite sick of justifying the facts, and in the end it looks like I am taking iBurst's side.

This matter has two issues... both of which are concerning to me... the first issue is that of permission granted for the mast. I have no knowledge of those matters, but it is fast becoming apparent that this was done by the book!!!!! Then the issue of radiation... as I maintain, there is a small chance by some conditions existing there that susceptible people may be affected, but in the main, generally not!

Just for the record, I found an acquaintence of mine who lives in the UK, he has got a magnetron from a microwave oven on his benchtop, he uses to test his neon tubes, by holding it with his bare hand. Tells us he's done this for the last however many years without injury. So there, his hand hasn't fallen off, or burnt, or broken out in cancer. The magnetron acts as a diathermic device, heating the tissues. Diathermy is used in medicine, not so? A magnetron heats, that's all it does and it needs to emit over 400 watts of CW to achieve that.

An iBurst basestation puts out 26 watts modulated in bursts. I seriously doubt that will raise the temperature of anything even by 0,01 degrees C. If put into a dummy load it will probably weakly heat it, compared to a military/civilian radar that will probably set most dummy loads on fire. Ham radios, especially some CB radios are MORE POWERFUL than this!!!!

And now for the joke of it all... I lived next door to an MTN tower between 1994 and 2005, no change in health, no cancer, no skin rashes, or anything to myself, my pets or my cancer suffering mother. My mother got cancer from cigarettes, which in my book is a far greater health hazard than any military radar.

What of all the planes that pump out microwaves into the air?
What of all the cellphone masts?
what of all the armed response radios in people's homes/businesses pumping out over 15 watts?
Everyone loves cellphones, yet nobody complains about them.

With all due respect, this is fast becoming a witch-hunt!

I'll bet your friend didn't put his arm in line with the magnetron? How many years has he done it for and has he been tested. If the answer is just a few and "no", then it's just more anecdotal evidence which people like Jannie should also be disputing in the same way as before.

Yes, try an explain to an eagle sitting on her nest why you want to service the tower.

One of the biggest challenges the guys with the big transmitters (such as radio, TV and the military) have with their masts are the stay wires as the birds fly into them.

And those towers put out many kilowatts, thousands of times more than a typical mobile tower. Yet the birds don't seem to mind hanging around these towers.

The birds are on the towers because the trees have been removed.

You seem to personify the birds, as if you've asked them if they mind. Have any studies been done on harmful effects to birds. Please post it here.

 

[Kloofvreter]

The birds are on the towers because the trees have been removed.

You seem to personify the birds, as if you've asked them if they mind. Have any studies been done on harmful effects to birds. Please post it here.

Oh please.

 

[Rustum]

//nudges @Jannie again//

Jannie Van Zyl:



Excuse me? Jannie, can you tell me what I have been "very vocal" about in relation to this particular thread? What have I said about iBurst and the Craigavon issue? Are you seeing ghosts?

 

[Kei]

X rays are also used in medicine but they can be extremely dangerous, causing cancer and even death after short term and long term exposure and have been shown to destroy cells. The same may be said for radiation in cancer treatment.

You cannot compare RF energy with X-rays, the wavelengths are so far apart. RF energy is not the same as the radioactive energies, unlike popular belief. X-rays and other rays are harmful in ways not present in RF energy. CRT computer monitors emit x-rays, but nobody is getting sick by that?

Just so that you all know, if you go and do your homework, you will find the human arms and hands can tolerate very much higer doses of radiation compared to the rest of the body.

RF energy generates voltages in metallic objects, and in large powers, heats the objects.

I also find it hard to believe that now suddenly there's a problem, after almost 100 years of radio broadcasting and many thousands of radio hams who love to build their own equipment and are on the air on any given day.

 

[marine1]

Kei but what I am saying is I dont think it is all of a sudden. Cancer has skyrocketed over the last years. Just remember Cancer doesnt happen immediately, it can take years to be discovered in a human

 

[schurtek]

Just for the record, I found an acquaintence of mine who lives in the UK, he has got a magnetron from a microwave oven on his benchtop, he uses to test his neon tubes, by holding it with his bare hand. Tells us he's done this for the last however many years without injury. So there, his hand hasn't fallen off, or burnt, or broken out in cancer. The magnetron acts as a diathermic device, heating the tissues. Diathermy is used in medicine, not so? A magnetron heats, that's all it does and it needs to emit over 400 watts of CW to achieve that.

When I was studying communication electronics, we learnt a lot about this sorta thing. According my my memory, water resonates at 2.45 GHz. Any vibration, mechanical, radiation or electromagnetic, will be absorbed by the water. This absorbed energy needs to go somewhere, so it get's converted into heat. The problem is that water is not such a good heat conductor, so a lot of the heat escapes the water via the surface area and through evaporation. The trick is to put enough energy in the water such that it will gain more heat than it can emit. This is the principle behind a microwave oven.

Now let's work with the principle of how the energy radiates from an antenna (which a magnetron is just a super powerful antenna). Take a bucket of water, poor the water onto a flat ground surface. Take note how the water starts off deep and then gets shallower as it spreads out. There is no decrease in the amount of water, no increase either, it just spreads out. This is the same with radio waves. An omni directional antennae will emit the radiation in a 360 degree spread. As it gets further away from the antenna the signal gets weeker (shallower) simply because it's getting more spread out.

Now compare what is happening: 5lt bucket compared to 5W radio. If you take the antenna (point where the water hits the ground), and draw two intersecting lines so the area surrounding is divided into four, you will essentially have 1.25lt / 1.25W of water / energy going into each quadrant. But if we could put walls up to stop water / energy from going into all quadrants, and only have it go into one quadrant, then we would have 5lt / 5W of water /energy in that quadrant. This is how a directional or sector antenna works.

Basically, you are focusing the energy into a smaller field thus ensuring more of it. Now a Magnetron is very very very focused. It works by bouncing the energy around inside until it is all absorbed by the water.

When you absorb radiation from a radio tower, you do not absorb all of it, only the bit that got spread out in your direction. And remember, radio waves work in a 3D space, where as my example was only in 2D space. You put your hand infront of the funnel of a magnetron, you are getting ALL the energy. Now take into account the power of the radio tower in comparison to the magnetron.

Tower = 36W (but I seriously doubt it)

Magnetron = 400-2000W (most microwave ovens start in at 700W)

Tower is spreading the power while the magnetron has it focused. If you are standing say 50 meters from the tower, how much energy will your body be absorbing?

Take that the tower is omni directional and has a vertical spread of 35 degrees. Let's also for simplicity state that your entire body is exposed. The average person is say 1.8m tall, and say an average of 350mm wide (yeah, I am using my body to measure, and I am not that big). Let's also assume that the top of the head is in direct line with the epicentre of vertical transmission.

So we can use a bit of trig to work this out. We know the opp (1.8m) and the adj (50m)

Vertical
tan a = 1.8/50
a = 2.06 degrees
2.06/35 = 5.89% of the vertical spread

Horizontal
tan a = 0.35/50
a = 0.4 degrees
0.4/360 = 0.11% of the horizontal spread.

5.89% of 0.11% = 0.006479%

36W * 0.006479% = 2.33244mW

I weigh 85KG, 70% of your mass is water. That means that my body has just under 60ltrs of water.

Try heat up 60ltrs of water with a 400W or even a 2000W magnetron.

If the tower was transmitting at 2.45GHz, and you were able to stop all heat from being emitted from your body, it may take a few hundred years before you get hot enough to notice.

But as far as I know, iBurst doesn't use the 2.45GHz frequency, but your WiFi modem does. So this whole arguement is invalid.

 

[bdt]

So, the Craigavon station is what - 20m or so up? (I forget exact number now) - here are two *significantly* lower down stations in Linden and Parkhurst that have been there for YEARS with nary a peep from anyone in the surrounding areas about untoward effects ..and note how the Parkhurst one is on some poor oke's ROOF!

 

[Sackboy]

Oh please.

It was a fair question. Whether I will get an answer is highly doubtful.

 

[bdt]

But as far as I know, iBurst doesn't use the 2.45GHz frequency, but your WiFi modem does. So this whole arguement is invalid.

Recalc for around 1.7GHz...

 

[schurtek]

.and note how the Parkhurst one is on some poor oke's ROOF!

Poor oke, get's a second pay check every month... I really pity him... hey Jannie, come stick one on my roof... I'm Jewish, so I'll give you half price...

Recalc for around 1.7GHz...

The calculations are the same, but 1.7GHz will not excite water molecules. At worst, you might get a bit of radiation, but the amount is so insignificant. The only real threat of radiation comes from Cell-phone handsets, as they sit right next to the brain (though sometimes I wonder?)... and the Jury is not out yet, as to whether or not the cell-phone emits enough power...

 

[LancelotSA]

...and the Jury is not out yet, as to whether or not the cell-phone emits enough power...

You see now, for me that in itself is pretty damning proof that there must be some degree of health risk! With all the money floating around in cellular communication you think they would have thrown a stack of that at proving that there are no long term health risks just to clear this up once and for all.... but no, the uncertainty still prevails...

 

[bdt]

The calculations are the same, but 1.7GHz will not excite water molecules. At worst, you might get a bit of radiation, but the amount is so insignificant.

Teasing that point out for the benefit of the non-radio tech was entirely the point - thanks for the counter-point.

The only real threat of radiation comes from Cell-phone handsets, as they sit right next to the brain (though sometimes I wonder?)

Indeed, and here's the kicker: the MORE base-stations there are in reception range, the better for that part of your brain you heat holding that little RF-radiator to your head. For, as you well know, the closer the handset is to a tower, the lower its TX power levels are which gives rise to the wonderful apparent contradiction of you being BETTER off with a high tower density than you are out in the boonies where the towers are few and far between...

... and the Jury is not out yet, as to whether or not the cell-phone emits enough power...

That inverse-square law's a bugger (for the radiation brigade) to beat...

 

[schurtek]

You see now, for me that in itself is pretty damning proof that there must be some degree of health risk! With all the money floating around in cellular communication you think they would have thrown a stack of that at proving that there are no long term health risks just to clear this up once and for all.... but no, the uncertainty still prevails...

Yeah, it's like the whole cigarette thing, tobacco companies threw so much money to proving tobacco is not a killer, and to get more and more people to smoke, yet, still, you can't light up where you want to.

The Jury is not out yet, as they have not yet proven it. If you think that the cellphone is cooking your head, then get rid of the phone. Oh and while you at it, your telkom phone has a constant 75V power on it. Considering the amount of electricity this country is wasting, you can cancel your telkom line as well. Oh, and remember, 3G uses cellular networks, so toss that out, and get rid of your iburst since that is also causing sickness. While you busy clearing out everthing that is harmful to your health, throw away everything you own that uses the 2.4GHz spectrum, as we already know the risks of using those products, so that includes your microwave and laptop. Hell, we might as well toss everything electrical, as there has been recorded complaints from people living near substations and high tension powerlines. Oh, and the car you drive, if it's not electric, you must throw it away as carbon monoxide is poisonous, and if it's electric, where you gonna plug it in. Welcome to the Dark Ages, here is a deer skin to keep you warm.

Oh and bdt: only newer phones adjust radio power. Even new cheap phones don't do it.

 

[-toady-]

So, the Craigavon station is what - 20m or so up? (I forget exact number now) - here are two *significantly* lower down stations in Linden and Parkhurst that have been there for YEARS with nary a peep from anyone in the surrounding areas about untoward effects ..and note how the Parkhurst one is on some poor oke's ROOF!

Maybe the Linden and Parkhurst towers havent yet had the iBurst technology added to them yet?

 

[bdt]

Maybe the Linden and Parkhurst towers havent yet had the iBurst technology added to them yet?

You mean the respective iBurst towers I presume?

..ok, sorry; I couldn't resist. Those are two iBurst base stations/towers that have been around for yonks. And there are plenty others - the one on top of a small shopping centre roof in River Club comes to mind (but MAN you should see the signal level I get off that thing!)

 

[Wimbo]

I'm more inclined to suspect that one of the neighbours, in these troubled times, has taken to incinerating toxic waste in their back garden to make ends meet.

Dunno about toxic, but the tower IS in the grounds of a crematorium, which includes a serious incinerator ...

 

[Gatecrasher]

Dunno about toxic, but the tower IS in the grounds of a crematorium, which includes a serious incinerator ...

Which brings us nicely onto the topic of raising the dead....

 

[MickeyD]

Which brings us nicely onto the topic of raising the dead....

Wimbo = Lazarus ?

 

[schurtek]

AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! ZOMBIES!!!!!